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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I was only comparing sources of angst for sinners not raisng his book to that of the Bible. So you can let it go now .
    So you were wrong about praising a book you never read then. Gotcha.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I assume you mean during his tenure unless he was singing for a living.

    But to your point, here is my struggle as well. I would like to see evidence that he was discriminating against gays. If he was, he should be punished for that. Not liking their lifestyle to me doesn't qualify for a reason to fire him if that's what this was all about.
    If he had discriminated in the past, I am sure it would have been revealed by now.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yes, those things tend to need to form a pattern when there isnt a direct observation.

    And?
    And I would not want a gay turning me into the HR Department based solely on "mights" and "coulds".Thus, I extended my former atheist lesbian supervisor the same courtesy.

    In the end, I bet my former supervisor is happy because I did not try to "build a pattern of "coulds" ", and the HR department was glad I did not waste their time.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    If he had discriminated in the past, I am sure it would have been revealed by now.
    his book only provided basis to those who could show evidence of actual bias
    which causes me to question why the city does not reveal exactly what the basis was for his termination
    in fact, the city was pissed it was unable to conceal the nature of its unpaid suspension of the fire chief because he disclosed it in church. he dared mention what was being inflicted upon him by the city while it was not paying him any wage
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    =if he passed out pro-gay marriage leaflets too? Or books by Richard Dawkins?
    the odds of this happening are between 0 and nil

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    There is much we do not know. Someone mentioned and it seems that I also read in an article that Cochran was directed not to publicly discuss the issue during his 30 day suspension. Apparently Cochran did violate that directive.

    It has also been reported that he did not receive permission from the Mayor to write the book that he published. That appears to be a factor in the chief's suspension and dismissal.

    Something I read in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper related that Cochran was put on suspension without pay. That's telling. I interpret that it could mean that between the initial communication between the mayor and Cochran about the issue(s) and the time the suspension went into effect something was said or done that warranted "without pay" while the allegations were being investigated.

    As I said in previous post I have been down this road a few times and I absolutely hated every minute of it. Ending someone's career and taking away their livelihood is a very serious matter. You owe them every possible consideration. In some ways they can make their own situation worse. I'm not saying that is what Cochran did, but putting him on 30 days suspension with or without pay was most likely an option. The fact that Cochran got the without pay suspension cannot be ignored. What happened? Who knows. We likely never will know.

    Lawyers are all involved and HR is involved and you go to meetings concerning the alleged violations and complaints. You have to meet with and talk to a lot of people. Lawyers and HR, in my experiences, also advise you to look at the possibilities of tangental and even non-related areas of possible wrong doing. Doing so makes you feel dirty. It takes up and inordinate amount of time, but again you owe to the employee and to all employees to do it.

    The first time, when I told the HR director that looking at other possibilities made me uncomfortable and that I wasn't going to do it. He responded by saying that I owed it to the employee (a guy I really liked who had almost 20 years of productive employment and a guy who was going to close on a new home 2 DAYS before the scheduled end of his 30 day suspension with pay). HR said, "Look, if you want to help him, and if in other ways he has a clear slate, you may be able to use that to justify something less than dismissal." Unfortunately, I found and documented things I didn't found hard to believe. He was manager and a nice guy. In the end I had no choice.

    Lastly, HR and lawyers always advised that I provide a list of reasons why action was taken when other reasons were discovered during the 30 investigation. Think of it like police always arresting people on multiple charges. Often times there is more than one justifiable reason a person is terminated.

    As the termination of even someone as prominent in the community as the city fire chief is a personnel matter, the public is not at all likely to know all the reasons or the specifics. Foremost, for me anyway, you want to respect the dignity and the confidentiality of the dismissed person as much as you can. Secondly, a public "he said, she said" benefits no one, including the employer - government or private. Finally, the legal department will tell you that there is always the possibility of being sued and it serves no purpose to say more than is necessary. PR will advise you, often specifically, how to respond and not to belabor the issue; stay on point and repeat when you must.

    There is a reason we do not have a great deal of information about the OP. I doubt we will for a long time. What we may hear will be one-sided. Don't look for the City of Atlanta to engage in a "he said, she said". The quickest was to stop the public discussion is not to respond not respond once the issue is concluded.

    Sorry for the text wall.
    Reason for suspension without pay is he likely went around saying tantamount to "there better not be any fags working for me." You know it never happens that a fanatic passes around some pamphlet and that's the end of it. He created a hostile environment for his workers. Whether he should be fired, i don't know, but i don't sympathy for bigots anyway. Good riddance

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    And I would not want a gay turning me into the HR Department based solely on "mights" and "coulds".Thus, I extended my former atheist lesbian supervisor the same courtesy.

    In the end, I bet my former supervisor is happy because I did not try to "build a pattern of "coulds" ", and the HR department was glad I did not waste their time.
    Sorry but people can report anything they want. HR, like anything else, has a job to do in discovering the truth. I dont believe that people have the right to 'not be offended,' but we also have a reasonable expectation of safety and recognition and professionalism in the workplace. If someone observes something or is treated a certain way, there's a reasonable chance it's happening to others too. If there is more than report, it's corroborating. It can help others.

    And what issue did you have with your former supervisor that you didnt report?
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    his book only provided basis to those who could show evidence of actual bias
    which causes me to question why the city does not reveal exactly what the basis was for his termination
    in fact, the city was pissed it was unable to conceal the nature of its unpaid suspension of the fire chief because he disclosed it in church. he dared mention what was being inflicted upon him by the city while it was not paying him any wage
    YOu bring up a good point.

    Do we know if there were prior incidents or complaints against him? Employees may have made complaints to HR and those might be confidential but show a pattern . Even if they werent actionable or able to subtantiate them. This book would be more supporting evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sorry but people can report anything they want. HR, like anything else, has a job to do in discovering the truth.

    And what issue did you have with your former supervisor that you didnt report?
    I did not have any issue with her, as she never unethically acted on her stated opposition to my social group (conservative Christians).

    Yes, she did openly identify as a lesbian and and an atheist. Yes, she informed me directly that she had a dim view of the social goals of conservative Christians and the place of conservative religion in America. Yes, she knew I was a conservative Christian (pro life bumper sticker on my car, I also periodically requested vacation time to go to church services during the week, took off for Good Friday etc.).

    So, she might have decided that she did not like me personally and could have decided to discriminate against me. Yes, I could have went to HR, but I dont favor turning people in for what they "might" decide and "could" do. It is simply against basic fairness and wastes time.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 01-12-15 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    100% lie and not as fact as the countless articles prove
    Prove or allege? I haven't seen any stats that demonstrate performance declination due to this.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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