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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #621
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    shirley, there must be more to have caused cochrane's termination than what he wrote, as there is nothing in his screed which would place anyone in harm's way, such that there is now a call for safe working conditions

    and if there is truly nothing more than his words that instigated this termination, then we should sound the alarms, because this man's right to free speech has been very much violated
    Though I am very sympathetic to Cochrane, I dont think we need to sound the alarm bells. At the end of the day, he occupied a very senior position. He was not a line employee, nor was he a line supervisor. As such, his employment was probaby "at the sole discretion of the mayor".

    Though his termination was not fair, and had say, an outspoken lesbian chief been terminated under similar pretense, left wing authoratarians would have a fit, his termination was with in the powers of the mayor and with in the lawful excersize of his discretion.

    In short, the higher up one goes in public office, the more discretionary continued employment becomes, regardless of one's socio political views. Had Cochrane been a line fire fighter, then yes, the alarm bells would need to be sounded loudly.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 01-10-15 at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    LOL! I don't think he was really 'against' Gays at all but, to the Gays, that doesn't seem to matter.
    Huh? Perverts, filthy, pedophiles, animal ****ers? Those are terms of endearment and acceptance? How about wops, paddies, chinks, niggers, kikes, lazy, drunks, smelly and cunning? How about mackerel snappers, papists and sand niggers?










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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
    According to reports and statements by City of Atlanta officials he gave the books out at work to subordinates. And it does matter who he involved in that he reportedly referred to the City of Atlanta in his book.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  4. #624
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    LOL! I don't think he was really 'against' Gays at all but, to the Gays, that doesn't seem to matter.


    As soon as I hit the "Submit" button, I was afraid that I would be pilloried for that reference.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    not a bit different. unless you want to pretend that there are no active managers out there who are misogynist and/or racial bigots. would you establish a litmus test for thought?

    would you rather the bigot be covert than overt? someone who hides their bigotry instead of someone who is candid about it? that concealment makes it much more difficult to align their actions with their beliefs. my preference would be to know who holds such - to me, backward - beliefs, rather than having to put the puzzle together
    and like most, i would prefer someone not to hold misogynist or racially biased views. but look on this board, and it is obvious that would be a fantasy to expect such reasonableness in the workplace

    what's next? if the manager is someone who watches his weight, works out and is selective about what he puts in his mouth, will that cause him to be found to have a bias against fat people. can't have that, get his ass out of that leadership position so that he is no longer in a position to intrude on the prospects of fat subordinates

    you are right, it could affect it. but here's the rub, it should not. and we should not assume that it will. we should instead act on fact, and get rid of him IF his actions demonstrate that he is acting on his unique sense of morality, rather than by the shop rules

    ok, share with us examples of what you insist and let's scrutinize them to see if those were reasonable actions

    i agree with you that we must treat every employee fairly. then why do you defend firing this very moral fellow only because of the courage of his convictions and not his biased actions against subordinates. i have seen NO proof he acted inappropriately towards any subordinate employee, peer, or supervisor. there is no record that any coworker was inflicted by this man's moral beliefs. so, where is this profound sense of fairness, now?
    show me an instance when that is not the case. that tidbit has no bearing on this matter

    Absolutely they should keep their opinions of all kinds to themselves. The fact that their beliefs are strong enough to publish is an indication of their strength and committment to them. We all have known employers/managers that were prejudiced against women or blacks or seniors, etc. And HR departments and individuals need to document instances of biases in the workplace. And all of us probably have suffered from such unprovable allegations.

    But we have anti-discrimination laws for a reason and have a system of dealing with it. If we CAN deal directly with those using illegal bias against those in the workplace, we should. The fact that this was written out is a slap in the face to every LGBT person working for him. How often does a manager make blatant verbal comments like that? Not only does it affect them, it can cause others in the workplace to pity or look at the LGBT people differently, even take advantage of that bias with the superior.

    One does not have to act...the damage has already been done to LGBT employees. They often do prove racism and misogyny in the workplace...it just has to be properly documented. The supervisor that writes that women are too emotional to do their jobs, cant do math, and belong at home and publishes it? He is not fit for the job because his **ignorance** proves it. The fire chief in this case wrote things that altho his belief, are also incorrect. LGBT people are not perverts, damaged, sinners, etc. That is incompetance. That shows he believes unfounded dogma rather than fact. He's not moral. He has judged unfairly LGBT people. Even God says that's wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I had a supervisor in Los Angeles who was openly lesbian, placed discreet, but still very noticable, "rainbow" themed decorations in her office and made it known that she was an atheist. In personal conversations to me, she let me know she had a dim view of the social role of orgainized religion- of any sort.

    Since by local standards, I was a very conservative Christian (active church goer), could I demand her removal based on the possibility that she might be hostile to me as an individual and then might seek to punish me for my views by hindering my advancement?

    Or, would I have needed to wait until she actually did something that I could prove?
    I would have discussed it with the company's HR person, have it on the record.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    According to reports and statements by City of Atlanta officials he gave the books out at work to subordinates. And it does matter who he involved in that he reportedly referred to the City of Atlanta in his book.
    I can refer to whoever I want with my first amendment right. As long as I do it correctly. Did he give them out on his time or the cities? Being at work doesn't really mean much if he were on break I suppose.
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
    The evidence points to that he likely did do it on company time.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
    That's actually irrelevant. On or off the clock he will have made his feelings clear and, should there actually have been any gay firemen in the department, will have created a hostile work environment.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That's actually irrelevant. On or off the clock he will have made his feelings clear and, should there actually have been any gay firemen in the department, will have created a hostile work environment.
    So you are no longer free to say what you wish? He has no first amendment.
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