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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/us...iews.html?_r=0

    ATLANTA — Mayor Kasim Reed announced Tuesday that he had fired the chief of the city’s Fire Rescue Department, Kelvin Cochran, after Mr. Cochran gave workers a religious book he wrote containing passages that condemn homosexuality.

    Mr. Reed had suspended Mr. Cochran for a month without pay in November, opening an investigation into whether Mr. Cochran’s authorship and distribution of the book to workers violated the city’s nondiscrimination policies. That move sparked a debate about religious liberty and freedom of expression: Last month, the 1.4-million member Georgia Baptist Convention began an online petition that called for Mr. Cochran’s reinstatement and suggested his First Amendment rights had been violated.

    The matter also presents a challenge for Mr. Reed, a second-term Democrat who presides over a metropolis whose social mosaic is defined by strong expressions of Christianity and large and politically powerful gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual groups.

    snip...

    Homosexual Agenda strikes again



    Was he against all gays or just the Flaming Gays?
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    From the City's perspective why was it important that Cochran use the City of Atlanta in his book? How does doing so benefit the city? Does it imply that the City of Atlanta supports what Cochran wrote in his book?

    I can imagine at some point behind closed doors the mayor saying, "I don't give a damn if you write a book. I don't give a damn what it's about. But, you may not and you shall not invoke the City of Atlanta in any way, shape or form in the book. The City is not going to be seen in any way as endorsing YOUR opinions and beliefs. You are free to have them and express them, but you may not connect them to your current employment by the City of Atlanta."

    Cochran's expression of his religious beliefs had nothing to do with his job. He brought his job into the expression of his religious beliefs when he wrote the book and his job didn't like it.
    I haven't read his book (I suspect I would have to take a shower immediately after doing so) so I don't know what mentions he makes of the City of Atlanta in it. What did he say?
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Did he do it on his time? Or under the cities? I missed that part.
    Indication is he involved city employees when he distributed the bpok

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I haven't read his book (I suspect I would have to take a shower immediately after doing so) so I don't know what mentions he makes of the City of Atlanta in it. What did he say?
    LOL! There's no way I'd read his book either. He has been quoted as saying in the book that he is (was) the fire chef for rescue (and something I can't recall) for the City of Atlanta and also that as the fire chief Cochran wrote that his "job description" is to "cultivate the department's culture for the glory of God," as well as to focus on the mission of saving lives and property.

    Here again his job has zip connection to his religion, but Cochran connected the two for some reason in his book. I suspect he used his title and connection as a way to lend credence to the author and thus the book.










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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    i keep hoping to find THE authentic reason for the fire chief's firing. thus far it appears be this:
    Alex Wan, the only openly gay member of Atlanta's City Council, released a statement on Reed's decision:
    I support the administration's decision to terminate Kelvin Cochran's employment with the City of Atlanta. His actions made it a difficult work environment for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender employees within the Atlanta Fire Rescue Department. This sends a strong message to employees about how much we value diversity and how we adhere to a non-discriminatory environment.
    I pledge my full support to Interim Fire Chief Joel Baker and LGBT Community Liaison Robin Shahar in implementing whatever programs and steps they recommend to create a safe working environment for all employees within the department.
    [emphasis added by bubba]
    Atlanta Fire Chief fired after publishing book calling homosexuality ?unclean,? ?vulgar? - Atlanta Business Chronicle


    shirley, there must be more to have caused cochrane's termination than what he wrote, as there is nothing in his screed which would place anyone in harm's way, such that there is now a call for safe working conditions

    and if there is truly nothing more than his words that instigated this termination, then we should sound the alarms, because this man's right to free speech has been very much violated

    if one's new supervisor shows up wearing unadorned, understated clothing, with her skirt well below he knees, the frequent dress of those who subscribe to the southern baptist religion, do we also fear her ... because we now have reason to believe her own moral viewpoints are near identical to cochran's. they share the same religious ideology. so, even tho she has not written/published a treatise, we might well conclude that she, too believes that homosexual acts are sinful and to her, aberrant

    how about if she arrives in a burka. does that indicate a personal openness to a hedonistic or homosexual lifestyle. so, should her subordinates be scared of her, as the LBGT staff of atlanta fire were scared of their supervisor

    and if you respond, 'no of course not', to my above questions, as in neither example did the supervisor write/publish such intolerant views, then does that not tell us that the difference was only that the fire chief exercised his right of free speech in a way that they did not

    so, maybe there is more to this than we have access to, but by withholding it, the government of atlanta does not hold itself in good stead. it appears to have fired a very moral man for advocating his personal morality and having the temerity to exercise his right of free speech to articulate his personal views
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i keep hoping to find THE authentic reason for the fire chief's firing. thus far it appears be this:
    [emphasis added by bubba]
    Atlanta Fire Chief fired after publishing book calling homosexuality ?unclean,? ?vulgar? - Atlanta Business Chronicle


    shirley, there must be more to have caused cochrane's termination than what he wrote, as there is nothing in his screed which would place anyone in harm's way, such that there is now a call for safe working conditions

    and if there is truly nothing more than his words that instigated this termination, then we should sound the alarms, because this man's right to free speech has been very much violated

    if one's new supervisor shows up wearing unadorned, understated clothing, with her skirt well below he knees, the frequent dress of those who subscribe to the southern baptist religion, do we also fear her ... because we now have reason to believe her own moral viewpoints are near identical to cochran's. they share the same religious ideology. so, even tho she has not written/published a treatise, we might well conclude that she, too believes that homosexual acts are sinful and to her, aberrant

    how about if she arrives in a burka. does that indicate a personal openness to a hedonistic or homosexual lifestyle. so, should her subordinates be scared of her, as the LBGT staff of atlanta fire were scared of their supervisor

    and if you respond, 'no of course not', to my above questions, as in neither example did the supervisor write/publish such intolerant views, then does that not tell us that the difference was only that the fire chief exercised his right of free speech in a way that they did not

    so, maybe there is more to this than we have access to, but by withholding it, the government of atlanta does not hold itself in good stead. it appears to have fired a very moral man for advocating his personal morality and having the temerity to exercise his right of free speech to articulate his personal views
    And what if he had written the same way about blacks or women? Blatantly racist or misogynistic? Knowing the hate and disgust your manager or co-worker felt for you, realizing that it would very possibly affect your chances for advancement? His personal morality can affect his judgement...that's a fact. I wrote earlier that govt agencies....school boards and counties...fire teachers and judges, etc for the personal things they post on social media and the personal morality that they display.

    Keeping someone like that in their position....who's responsibility is it to protect those that are dependent on him to be treated fairly in the workplace? Their families depend on their making a living.

    Btw, I dont always agree, at all, with those decisions about what's been posted on social media.
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And what if he had written the same way about blacks or women?
    not a bit different. unless you want to pretend that there are no active managers out there who are misogynist and/or racial bigots. would you establish a litmus test for thought?
    Blatantly racist or misogynistic?
    would you rather the bigot be covert than overt? someone who hides their bigotry instead of someone who is candid about it? that concealment makes it much more difficult to align their actions with their beliefs. my preference would be to know who holds such - to me, backward - beliefs, rather than having to put the puzzle together
    and like most, i would prefer someone not to hold misogynist or racially biased views. but look on this board, and it is obvious that would be a fantasy to expect such reasonableness in the workplace
    Knowing the hate and disgust your manager or co-worker felt for you, realizing that it would very possibly affect your chances for advancement?
    what's next? if the manager is someone who watches his weight, works out and is selective about what he puts in his mouth, will that cause him to be found to have a bias against fat people. can't have that, get his ass out of that leadership position so that he is no longer in a position to intrude on the prospects of fat subordinates
    His personal morality can affect his judgement...that's a fact.
    you are right, it could affect it. but here's the rub, it should not. and we should not assume that it will. we should instead act on fact, and get rid of him IF his actions demonstrate that he is acting on his unique sense of morality, rather than by the shop rules
    I wrote earlier that govt agencies....school boards and counties...fire teachers and judges, etc for the personal things they post on social media and the personal morality that they display.
    ok, share with us examples of what you insist and let's scrutinize them to see if those were reasonable actions
    Keeping someone like that in their position....who's responsibility is it to protect those that are dependent on him to be treated fairly in the workplace?
    i agree with you that we must treat every employee fairly. then why do you defend firing this very moral fellow only because of the courage of his convictions and not his biased actions against subordinates. i have seen NO proof he acted inappropriately towards any subordinate employee, peer, or supervisor. there is no record that any coworker was inflicted by this man's moral beliefs. so, where is this profound sense of fairness, now?
    Their families depend on their making a living.
    show me an instance when that is not the case. that tidbit has no bearing on this matter

    Btw, I dont always agree, at all, with those decisions about what's been posted on social media.
    good to know. i am assuming you see the particulars surrounding the termination and question the legitimacy of the firing action. well, that's what i am doing here
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Was he against all gays or just the Flaming Gays?
    LOL! I don't think he was really 'against' Gays at all but, to the Gays, that doesn't seem to matter.
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Indication is he involved city employees when he distributed the bpok
    It doesn't really matter who he involved. Did he give it to them on his own time? Or not?
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And what if he had written the same way about blacks or women? Blatantly racist or misogynistic? Knowing the hate and disgust your manager or co-worker felt for you, realizing that it would very possibly affect your chances for advancement? His personal morality can affect his judgement...that's a fact.
    I had a supervisor in Los Angeles who was openly lesbian, placed discreet, but still very noticable, "rainbow" themed decorations in her office and made it known that she was an atheist. In personal conversations to me, she let me know she had a dim view of the social role of orgainized religion- of any sort.

    Since by local standards, I was a very conservative Christian (active church goer), could I demand her removal based on the possibility that she might be hostile to me as an individual and then might seek to punish me for my views by hindering my advancement?

    Or, would I have needed to wait until she actually did something that I could prove?

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