Page 52 of 72 FirstFirst ... 242505152535462 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 520 of 712

Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #511
    Electrician
    Bob Blaylock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    North 38°28′ West 121°26′
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,745

    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So then any gay men or women working for the city should be fired? No one should be forced to work with them? Along with the other immoral people like adulterers and fornicators? I mean, isnt [sic] it wrong to force 'decent' people to work for them and with them?
    No, I am not saying that at all. Not unless you can get me to agree that it is unfair to sick perverts to force them to work with or under people who uphold decent moral standards. If it's fair to fire this police chief because his moral standards make sick perverts uncomfortable, then it would have to be at least equally fair to fire sick perverts because their immorality makes decent people uncomfortable.

    Or perhaps, we can just accept that everyone has beliefs, values, and practices that not everyone else is going to be comfortable with; and that if colleague's morals or lack thereof makes you uncomfortable, then that's your own damn problem, and if you can't stand to work with him because of it, then you should quit, rather than seeking to have him fired for a problem that is your own.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  2. #512
    Sage
    WCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Lone Star State.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,154

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Uh huh.

    So much of your denial is also based on a lack of information?
    If that were the case, it wouldn't have been used as a reason to fire him. It wasn't to my knowledge.

    Here's a clip from before his dismissal where they said the people who reveived the bok would be interview and that there was no evidence where they received them.


    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  3. #513
    Electrician
    Bob Blaylock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    North 38°28′ West 121°26′
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,745

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Being gay is a trait. Adultery is an action.
    No, both are temptations on which one may act; and for which one is responsible if one does act.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #514
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I can't answer that question. You'd have to ask an employment law expert. What I do know is that I, as a manager, am responsible for ensuring that there is no harassment of my staff at work nor at company sponsored work related functions. I have never been told that I'm responsible for what my employees do to each other in a parking lot outside of work hours. And I was never told that as a manager I was not to engage in specific activity (such as sexual harassment) with my employees outside of work. I assumed that was a law having nothing to do with employment laws. I'm not responsible for my staff when they're in a supermarket.

    I know my boss can't attempt a quid pro quo on me in a supermarket, or imply in a supermarket that I need to sleep with him in order to keep my job, but I'm not aware of anything that would extend to his employment with my company if he sees me in shorts in the supermarket and says "Nice legs" (which he can not by law say to me in the workplace or at a company sponsored function).

    So I guess someone else would have to answer the question - if this Fire Chief gave these books to people in the supermarket, can he be fired? I can't.
    I think it comes down to if the manner and place of distribution come down to being interpreted by other employees, esp. subordinates, as a threat to their employment or advancement. I dont think you'd have a case if he did it once at the supermarket but more than once? Starts to sound deliberate.

    Content also matters. People are fired today over what's found on their social media pages. Teachers, judges, etc. So if someone posted or wrote something racist or homophobic that was in a position of authority....what then? It can be implied that these views will affect their professional judgement. (Correctly or incorrectly.) And then the city or job or organization can fire him to reduce liability of potential employee complaints of harassment or not getting promotions, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #515
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    No, I am not saying that at all. Not unless you can get me to agree that it is unfair to sick perverts to force them to work with or under people who uphold decent moral standards. If it's fair to fire this police chief because his moral standards make sick perverts uncomfortable, then it would have to be at least equally fair to fire sick perverts because their immorality makes decent people uncomfortable.

    Or perhaps, we can just accept that everyone has beliefs, values, and practices that not everyone else is going to be comfortable with; and that if colleague's morals or lack thereof makes you uncomfortable, then that's your own damn problem, and if you can't stand to work with him because of it, then you should quit, rather than seeking to have him fired for a problem that is your own.
    Did they say it made anyone uncomfortable? Generally discrimination and harassment and other workplace issues come down to more than that...safety, advancement, fear of firing, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #516
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    No, both are temptations on which one may act; and for which one is responsible if one does act.
    So you're one of those people who think gay people can be "fixed"?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  7. #517
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,868

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Let me ask you this: if he was fired from a private institution for this would you have the same* feelings? Is it just that he was fired from a public institution that makes you think this was wrong?

    *Edit: Typo
    Almost nothing in the Constitution prohibits discrimination by private persons. Section 2 of the Thirteenth Amendment figured in a Supreme Court decision on race discrimination in the sale of housing; the Fifteenth Amendment has in some cases prohibited private voting discrimination; and section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment has pretty much gone nowhere when it's been tried. It's Congress power to regulate interstate commerce that's usually been relied on, for example for prohibiting race discrimination in restaurants, lodging, and other public accommodations in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    Since I think it stretches the Commerce Clause beyond reasonable limits to claim it as authority for federal laws against discrimination, I don't believe anything in the Constitution prevents--at least legitimately prevents--private employers from discriminating against anyone, for any reason, in hiring and firing. There's no question, though, that states have authority to make such discrimination illegal. (I also oppose doing that, but for reasons that would take too long to explain here.)

    So I think private employers should be free to hire and fire people as they see fit, for whatever reason, although the laws do not quite allow that. Even private employers are prohibited by state and federal laws from discriminating in hiring based on race, religion, and all the other well-known characteristics. And they can be sued for unlawful termination.

    But there is still more security in government jobs, and firing people from them sometimes raises constitutional issues. The way the Supreme Court has interpreted the Constitution's guarantees of procedural due process, starting fifty years ago or more, governments have to follow certain procedures regarding notice and hearing in dismissing employees.

    So no, it is not as cut-and-dried as in private business, and firing someone like a community college instructor, for example, may require the agency involved to be very careful how it proceeds. And it's clear schoolteachers, firemen, or other public employees don't lose all their First Amendment rights or other constitutional rights by showing up at work.
    Last edited by matchlight; 01-08-15 at 07:15 PM.

  8. #518
    Sage
    Hicup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 03:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    7,846

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    please feel free to point out anythign i called a strawman and use facts to prove its not, thank you
    also, by defintion, what i just wrote is FACTUALLY not a strawman lol
    facts win again
    Oh I am fully aware of you M.O. cupcake.. factually this, factually that, translation this, translation that..

    here's what you said exactly.

    this is what i want . .

    for the handful that think this is somehow not right

    tomorrow right a short story about how you want jews to burn or are going to; how niggers are vile and dirty; that you think fags are evil and will unleash a plague on us; or christians are filthy infidels that deserved killed etc etc Then take it to work and distribute it amongst your co workers.

    than let us know what happens, thank you

    First lets deal with the strawman. By invoking hyperbole, you intentionally lead the observer to assume that what you're saying is so vile that it couldn't possibly be allowed in a work place environment, thus, setting up a strawman, and knocking it down - HOWEVER, (And here's the analogy part, you paying attention yet) notwithstanding your attempt to equate (Which is another way to say analogous) vile niggers - Jews burning - Dirty black people - "fags" unleashing plagues - and filthy Christian infidels deserving to be killed was absurd, not even remotely analogous to this situation, but you attempted to present it anyway.

    I "factually" called you out on it, ONLY because you were calling out other posters for doing the same thing, the only difference is, that most of their analogies were at least close. TRANSLATION: You did exactly the same thing that you accused others of doing.

    Got it now? Was it clear enough and factually consistent with the evidence? Was I able to translate your words into context with the proper syntax associated with the English language, well enough to form a reasonable understanding of what you were saying in printed word? Assuming I did translate correctly, how on Earth can you argue that you did not present a stawman argument, or a phony analogy that was no analogy at all?? Please do try though, I as always when dealing with you, could use the laugh.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #519
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Was he in a position to hire, and did he discriminate against homosexuals when hiring or evaluating their performance? That's where this should all lie, in the execution. I'm afraid that if we keep pushing these issues, we're going to end up with essentially some form of thought control, reeducation camps for those who don't agree with whatever we're supposed to agree with, and anyone expressing anything anywhere else (work place or private) can be punished for doing so.

    I mean, it's a super sticky situation to be in, but if he just thought it, if he just didn't like gays but that didn't come into his job performance; then functionally it's a null factor. People should be free to think and say as they like so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others. I think that to fire him, they would need to demonstrate that he did so. At the same accord, we probably don't want to be proselytizing our fire departments, so there's a line to walk. But let's say some fireman said "I'm Christian, and we believe that homosexuality is a sin" in the firehouse. Is that a punishable offense? Can that guy be fired? I would hope not. I would hope more that everyone could accept everyone for who they were; but that won't happen in a large enough society. So I think we should stick to performance, to actions, to force and not to just imagined offenses.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #520
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,482

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Was he in a position to hire, and did he discriminate against homosexuals when hiring or evaluating their performance? That's where this should all lie, in the execution. I'm afraid that if we keep pushing these issues, we're going to end up with essentially some form of thought control, reeducation camps for those who don't agree with whatever we're supposed to agree with, and anyone expressing anything anywhere else (work place or private) can be punished for doing so.

    I mean, it's a super sticky situation to be in, but if he just thought it, if he just didn't like gays but that didn't come into his job performance; then functionally it's a null factor. People should be free to think and say as they like so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others. I think that to fire him, they would need to demonstrate that he did so. At the same accord, we probably don't want to be proselytizing our fire departments, so there's a line to walk. But let's say some fireman said "I'm Christian, and we believe that homosexuality is a sin" in the firehouse. Is that a punishable offense? Can that guy be fired? I would hope not. I would hope more that everyone could accept everyone for who they were; but that won't happen in a large enough society. So I think we should stick to performance, to actions, to force and not to just imagined offenses.
    Effective leadership is as much about your subordinates' perception of you as it is about how you conduct yourself. In this case, the chief created a situation which forced his subordinates to question his ability to lead them effectively without prejudice, he created a hostile work environment, and brought his office copious amounts of bad press to boot. It doesn't matter whether he actually has or would discriminate against homosexuals; what matters is that his subordinates lost confidence in his leadership on this issue.

Page 52 of 72 FirstFirst ... 242505152535462 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •