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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #491
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Not in the workplace to people he supervised.
    That's just an assertion. You don't know whether dismissing this fire chief for what he did violated his constitutional rights, and neither does anyone else.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The case you cited (whatever it may be) apparently had to do with political activity. That is not on point--this is not about the Hatch Act. The Supreme Court has not yet decided the exact question involved here clearly.





    That is not accurate--it may, or may not. The Supreme Court, only this past summer, called it just the other way in Lane v. Franks, holding in that case that the First Amendment took precedence. The decision begins with this:


    Almost 50 years ago, this Court declared that citizens do not surrender their First Amendment rights by accepting public employment. Rather, the First Amendment protection of a public employee’s speech depends on a careful balance “between the interests of the [employee], as a citizen, in commenting upon matters of public concern and the interest of the State, as an employer, in promoting the efficiency of the public services it performs through its employees.” Pickering v. Board of Ed. of Township High School Dist. 205, Will Cty., 391 U. S. 563, 568 (1968) (emphasis added)
    Your case doesn't invalidated the one I cited, but I think you are seriously splitting hairs here.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That's just an assertion. You don't know whether dismissing this fire chief for what he did violated his constitutional rights, and neither does anyone else.
    Let me ask you this: if he was fired from a private institution for this would you have the same* feelings? Is it just that he was fired from a public institution that makes you think this was wrong?

    *Edit: Typo
    Last edited by whysoserious; 01-08-15 at 06:22 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Problem is, NP, that he wrote (according to your reference):

    “Uncleanness – whatever is opposite of purity; including sodomy, homosexuality, lesbianism, pederasty, bestiality, all other forms of sexual perversion.”

    “Naked men refuse to give in, so they pursue sexual fulfillment through multiple partners, with the opposite sex, the same sex, and sex outside of marriage and many other vile, vulgar and inappropriate ways which defile their body – temple and dishonor God.”


    So this means that if there's an LGBT firefighter working underneath him, that firefighter would know that his boss thinks that he or she - as an LGBT - is right down there with pederasty, bestiality, et al. And you would know down deep in your gut what that means for your chances for advancement.

    What's more, when the leader has that attitude, it trickles down the the chain and affects the whole supervisory chain. As a Navy veteran, you should know this instinctively from how a crew's performance and attitude changes when a new captain takes command of the ship.

    So...yeah. The guy had to be fired. If he wasn't aware enough of how his words and actions can affect his people, and how this can affect their job performance, then the guy had to go. It wasn't a PC thing - it was a LEADERSHIP thing.
    Such detailed sexual discussion is not allowed in the workplace under most HR's following the guidelines for sexual harassment. Not for supervisors, not for peers. It certainly isnt appropriate in a book that clearly demonstrates his personal opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Anti-Christian books that the state employee wrote himself, and handed out to only a few people who he knew or believed shared the same views as he did? Why would that be a bad thing?
    Alot of people probably presume to know my views on guns...and would be wrong. I never discuss guns at work, ever. Because the blowback from other opinions could definitely affect my job. So you cant really know what someone thinks because most people know you cant just air your views: religious, political, on sex, etc at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That's just an assertion. You don't know whether dismissing this fire chief for what he did violated his constitutional rights, and neither does anyone else.
    I didnt say it violated his Constitutional rights. It most likely violated workplace and Human Resource policies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Just curious. Are you saying he should have been prohibited from handing out copies of a book he wrote to anyone who works for or with the Fire Department...period? You say "he handed them out at work and in uniform". How do you know he did it while in uniform and at work? That hasn't been reported anywhere.

    Yes, he could have given it to them in the parking lot while wearing jeans. Or in the supermarket. Or at church.
    Can your boss sexually harass you in street clothes in the parking lot? Or at the supermarket? This can be classified in much the same manner...supervisors have to be extremely careful about perceived or real influence over subordinates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    You're not keeping up. There's no evidence saying it was in the work place and giving them out was not why he was dismissed.
    How exactly did his employees end up with them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Keep saying that as they destroy our country.
    Who is 'they' and how are 'they' destroying our country? Specific examples please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Your case doesn't invalidated the one I cited, but I think you are seriously splitting hairs here.
    I may sometimes seem to split hairs, but I don't do it to be disagreeable. I didn't see you identify the case you cited, but I think the Hatch Act of 1939 and the partisan political advocacy by government employees it meant to restrict form a special, distinct issue that isn't all that relevant here. Cases on sexual harassment in the workplace are more relevant to this one, but even there, the issue of First Amendment rights is not settled in the courts. Eugene Volokh has a very good summary of these cases online, at least as they stood when he wrote it.

    The Supreme Court made a suggestive comment about offensive gender-related speech at work in R.A.V. v. Minneapolis, a First Amendment "fighting words" decision, but it was only dicta. The Court's decision in Lane last year, which I mentioned above, does not deal with either gender-related speech or speech like that in this case, but it's interesting because the Court strongly and unanimously favored First Amendment protection in the government workplace. Whether that shows how a court would probably call this case is not clear.

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