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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #411
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/us...iews.html?_r=0

    ATLANTA — Mayor Kasim Reed announced Tuesday that he had fired the chief of the city’s Fire Rescue Department, Kelvin Cochran, after Mr. Cochran gave workers a religious book he wrote containing passages that condemn homosexuality.

    Mr. Reed had suspended Mr. Cochran for a month without pay in November, opening an investigation into whether Mr. Cochran’s authorship and distribution of the book to workers violated the city’s nondiscrimination policies. That move sparked a debate about religious liberty and freedom of expression: Last month, the 1.4-million member Georgia Baptist Convention began an online petition that called for Mr. Cochran’s reinstatement and suggested his First Amendment rights had been violated.

    The matter also presents a challenge for Mr. Reed, a second-term Democrat who presides over a metropolis whose social mosaic is defined by strong expressions of Christianity and large and politically powerful gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual groups.

    snip...

    Homosexual Agenda strikes again
    There is no guarantee to employment. In right to work states and employer can fire an employee for any reason or no reason at all. Maybe we should all encourage employers not to fire based on an employee's sexuality or political or religious beliefs.


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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is YOUR desire and YOUR belief. You are simply enforcing your desires on other people and pretending it is rational equality.
    And mine as well. There is nothing inequitable about it. Everyone is free of the imposition of every other person's religious beliefs, including atheism. If you permit one religion you must permit all.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So they aren't responsible for their interpretation and enforcement of federal regulations?

    bzzt try again
    They are, but the point remains government is not a singular monolithic entity that you portrayed it as.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is YOUR desire and YOUR belief. You are simply enforcing your desires on other people and pretending it is rational equality.
    Nope. You are wrong. It is to my knowledge a fairly standard workplace policy. Certainly in government workplaces the policy is standard. It is a condition of employment. According to Atlanta City Council members, Mayor Reed who is Mayor of Atlanta, and Anna Torres who is the spokesman for Mayor Reed it is the policy of the City of Atlanta as well.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    They are pretty simple... really. Here you go:

    1) Is what you are talking about a group of people.
    2) Are you defining that group of people by something that is perfectly legal (such as homosexuality or color of skin)
    3) Are you talking negatively about that entire group of people?

    Ok, great job, you've just committed hate speech. If there is a group of people who are unhirable in your eyes... you don't get to ****ing manage people. I wouldn't talk about that **** at work, or you're going to get ****ing fired.

    Use your ****ing head.
    So are you arguing that the Chief's beliefs are uniquely his and not the belief system of a larger group? You don't think the actions of the government would apply to all people in that group who chose to express their beliefs? How many people does it take to qualify as a group?

    I mean great if you think that because you will have only helped undermine the validity of the hate speech laws themselves. They need to die anyway because they are anti-First Amendment.

    In fact, the Supreme Court held 8-1 in favor of protecting hate speech in Snyder v. Phelps in 2011. The Chiefs freedom to speak is indeed protected against such government action. The court held in R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul that hate speech is legal when it is not reasonably expected to contribute to an immanent act of violence. The chief's book wouldn't meet that qualification.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So are you arguing that the Chief's beliefs are uniquely his and not the belief system of a larger group? You don't think the actions of the government would apply to all people in that group who chose to express their beliefs? How many people does it take to qualify as a group?

    I mean great if you think that because you will have only helped undermine the validity of the hate speech laws themselves. They need to die anyway because they are anti-First Amendment.

    In fact, the Supreme Court held 8-1 in favor of protecting hate speech in Snyder v. Phelps in 2011. The Chiefs freedom to speak is indeed protected against such government action.
    snyder vs phelps covers a public area, not the work place. It doesn't apply.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    this is what i want . .

    for the handful that think this is somehow not right

    tomorrow right a short story about how you want jews to burn or are going to; how niggers are vile and dirty; that you think fags are evil and will unleash a plague on us; or christians are filthy infidels that deserved killed etc etc Then take it to work and distribute it amongst your co workers.

    than let us know what happens, thank you
    If they want to material, what's the beef? What do you or anyone else care as long as they're not out there inciting violence, what law has been broken, and oh, for someone calling other posters out for strawmen, and analogies, I think you need to re-read what you just wrote cupcake..

    Tim-
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Nope. You are wrong. It is to my knowledge a fairly standard workplace policy. Certainly in government workplaces the policy is standard. It is a condition of employment. According to Atlanta City Council members, Mayor Reed who is Mayor of Atlanta, and Anna Torres who is the spokesman for Mayor Reed it is the policy of the City of Atlanta as well.
    No it isn't. That is not in any way a standard workplace policy. I have worked in state, local and federal government for 30 years and NEVER has what you stated been the policy of the workplace. If that is the policy in the city of Atlanta then it is both abnormal and illegal.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So are you arguing that the Chief's beliefs are uniquely his and not the belief system of a larger group? You don't think the actions of the government would apply to all people in that group who chose to express their beliefs? How many people does it take to qualify as a group?

    I mean great if you think that because you will have only helped undermine the validity of the hate speech laws themselves. They need to die anyway because they are anti-First Amendment.

    In fact, the Supreme Court held 8-1 in favor of protecting hate speech in Snyder v. Phelps in 2011. The Chiefs freedom to speak is indeed protected against such government action. The court held in R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul that hate speech is legal when it is not reasonably expected to contribute to an immanent act of violence. The chief's book wouldn't meet that qualification.
    You're comparing speech on a public sidewalk to speech of someone who hires/fires/manages for the government (or even in general). It's no the same. You can walk around in a thong on the sidewalk too, but I wouldn't try it at work.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I agree with you completely. And I suspect Jay Sekulow or some other top-notch First Amendment lawyer will want to go to bat for the fire chief on this. These issues showcase just how intolerant and undemocratic many people who like to call themselves "liberals" really are. Their beloved doctrine of political correctness, which was invented by communists, is specifically designed to suppress the freedom of speech. A homosexual who was a real liberal would be defending the chief's right to do what he did.

    It was less than forty years ago that Jewish lawyers fought all the way to the Supreme Court for the right of a group of Nazi goofballs to parade, in full regalia, including swaztikas, through a community they chose because many of the residents were Jews who had survived concentration camps. The freedom to say despicable things is more important than hurt feelings--even when the hurt is as severe as that. Today's ersatz liberals, who are really leftist radicals who resent this country and its Constitution, would be fighting to silence the Nazis.
    I don't believe you clearly understand the issue. Cochran's religious views were written by him in a book with his name on it and distributed at work to his subordinates. In his book he expressed his views regarding homosexuality and he stated that his primary mission as chief was to cultivate the culture of the fire department to glorify God. His book containing those statements were distributed in a work environment on city property to his subordinates.

    It wasn't specifically his religious beliefs, and the Atlanta city administration made that clear back in November, but rather that he distributed a book he wrote stating his religious beliefs in a work environment on city property to subordinates. THAT violated city policy and THAT is the stated reason given by the City of Atlanta.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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