Page 33 of 72 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast
Results 321 to 330 of 712

Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #321
    Sewer Rat
    Risky Thicket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,803

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    no it is a matter of you distorting what was done to push an agenda.
    you can't fire someone for passing a book out to his friends.
    No, you can't.

    Take legal porno magazines to work tomorrow and hand them out to people. Let us know how that works out for you. Maybe distribute books about how to hook up and swing with co-workers. Stand up in the break room at work and read 50 Shades of Gray out loud to your friends everyday during lunch.

    Honestly, tell us, do you believe any of the above ^^^ would go unchallenged at work? Would doing the above be a wise career move or do you think it would be a rather stupid career move or do you believe it would have no bearing on your career whatsoever?

    more so a book that he made for a bible study group at his church on his own time away from work.
    you can't fire someone over their religious beliefs we have laws that prevent that sort of thing.
    The issue is not what happened away from work. You are being disingenuous. Nothing I have read states that he was fired for writing a book on his own time away from work. If you know that is true please post a credible city government source that contains more information than we've seen so far. Otherwise, what you are asserting is not factual.

    You see, the problem is we do not know all the details. We do know that the media, and unfortunately religious organizations, have chosen to label the issue as everything from Cochran distributing a "homosexual book" to, and most prevalently, Cochran being fired for his religious beliefs. Google it and see for yourself.

    Just spend a few moments reading what very little information is available and make an attempt to be objective.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  2. #322
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:14 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    30,647

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no
    let's get this right
    it was not that he was expressing his Christian views
    it was that he was expressing very rigid, very intolerant views, that got him in trouble
    he wrote a book for his bible study group at church. please tell me how that is not expressing his religious views?

    he leads what is likely a diverse group of employees
    using that book, a person with LBGT inclinations (as but one example) who was not promoted could then claim their promotion was denied only because of their sexual orientation. an orientation that the chief, in his own words, found abhorrent
    in the same book he also talked about sex outside of marriage. because it was a chapter on what the bible had to say about sexual morality.
    they have to prove their promotion was denied because of it. there is no report that he did any of the things you mentioned you are making stuff up.

    the book does give the employer HR problems because it gives employees a basis to challenge disciplinary and non-selection actions, despite that discipline and/or non-selection being for legitimate reasons
    They have to prove he was actually doing that he wasn't. religious views are protected by law. he can't be fired for expressing those views.

    now if he was using those view points to actively hold people back or punish people then yes he should be fired, however there is no such report of such a thing.
    he was fired for doing a bible study which included a chapter on what the bible says about sexual morality and not just homosexuality but all sexual morality.

    the city committed religious discrimination and opened up themselves to a lawsuit.

  3. #323
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,119

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    all you have to do is read my post again slower and you will see how you can get fired for this, sorry this reality bothers you but its not going to change
    thank you for reposting what i wrote further proving your stramen failed
    Your post said you would be fired for bringing in a book that you wrote that contained offensive material and distributing it to your coworkers. Your post is right there. No strawman. Those are your words, not mine.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  4. #324
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,119

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Here's part of my HR policy that would probably land under:



    So if I wrote a book, the act of handing it out would fall under conduct, that makes condemning or derogatory remarks about sexual orientations and has the effect of creating a hostile or offensive work enviroment, I would violate my HR policy and be fired. I cannot speak for other companies though.
    I understand. But in the application of the law you would have to prove that the intent was harassment and creating a hostile etc work environment. I'm not sure where in the story of the Atlanta FD there was clear and proven intent to harass or disrupt the work environment.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  5. #325
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,797

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Your post said you would be fired for bringing in a book that you wrote that contained offensive material and distributing it to your coworkers. Your post is right there. No strawman. Those are your words, not mine.
    nope i said MORE than that, proven by my QUOTE, but that alone could easily get a person fire lol
    and please dont say you didnt post TWO strawman because i will just quote them and further prove your post wrong.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  6. #326
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,971

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    For sake of ease, lets say you're in a right to work state and your office has no dress code.

    An employee walks into your business with a shirt they had printed up that says "I hate jews. They are a plague upon humanity and vile creatures that wil lbe judged by Allah"

    You potentially (you don't ask people their religion) jewish employees and/or you potentially will have jewish customers.

    Two questions.

    First, COULD you concievably fire this person on the basis that the content he created (his t-shirt) and the message it's broadcasting in some fashion in the work place creates a hostile/intimidating/offensive work environment or would interfere in the business that is conducted due to customers reactions?

    Second, do you think you SHOULD be able to fire the person in such a case.

    Now, for those who answer...do you feel differently in terms of the book? If so, how is creating a book and creating a t-shirt any different stating views based on one's religious belief different? How is distributing your book at the work place (potentially on the clock?) different than wearing your message around on your chest in the work place?
    Last edited by Zyphlin; 01-08-15 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Edited to remove interpritation for violence

  7. #327
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,119

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    If you are right, I am sure we will see the lawsuit shortly.
    Even if he isn't right, I'm betting on a lawsuit anyway.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #328
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Compliance Manual Section 12 - Religious Discrimination

    As discussed in more detail in § IV-C-6 of this document, an employer never has to accommodate expression of a religious belief in the workplace where such an accommodation could potentially constitute harassment of co-workers, because that would pose an undue hardship for the employer. Therefore, while Title VII requires employers to accommodate an employee’s sincerely held religious belief in engaging in religious expression (e.g., proselytizing) in the workplace, an employer does not have to allow such expression if it imposes an undue hardship on the operation of the business. For example, it would be an undue hardship for an employer to accommodate proselytizing by an employee if it constituted potentially unlawful religious harassment of a co-worker who found it unwelcome, or if it otherwise interfered with the operation of the business.[114]

    Because employers are responsible for maintaining a nondiscriminatory work environment, they are liable for perpetrating or tolerating religious harassment of their employees. An employer can reduce the chance that employees will engage in conduct that rises to the level of unlawful harassment by implementing an anti-harassment policy and an effective procedure for reporting, investigating, and correcting harassing conduct.[115] Even if the policy does not prevent all such conduct, it will likely limit the employer’s liability where the affected employee allows the conduct to rise to the level of illegality by failing to report it. However, Title VII violations may result if an employer tries to avoid potential co-worker objections to employee religious expression by preemptively banning all religious communications in the workplace, since Title VII requires that employees’ sincerely held religious practices and beliefs be accommodated as long as no undue hardship is posed.

    · Employer Best Practices ·

    Employers should have a well-publicized and consistently applied anti-harassment policy that: (1) covers religious harassment; (2) clearly explains what is prohibited; (3) describes procedures for bringing harassment to management’s attention; and, (4) contains an assurance that complainants will be protected against retaliation. The procedures should include a complaint mechanism that includes multiple avenues for complaint; prompt, thorough, and impartial investigations; and prompt and appropriate corrective action.
    Employers should allow religious expression among employees to the same extent that they allow other types of personal expression that are not harassing or disruptive.

    Once an employer is on notice that an employee objects to religious conduct that is directed at him or her, the employer should take steps to end the conduct because even conduct that the employer does not regard as abusive can become sufficiently severe or pervasive to affect the conditions of employment if allowed to persist in the face of the employee’s objection.
    If harassment is perpetrated by a non-employee assigned by a contractor, the supervisor or other appropriate individual in the chain of command should initiate a meeting with the contractor regarding the harassment and demand that it cease, that appropriate disciplinary action be taken if it continues, and/or that a different individual be assigned by the contractor.
    To prevent conflicts from escalating to the level of a Title VII violation, employers should immediately intervene when they become aware of objectively abusive or insulting conduct, even absent a complaint.
    Employers should encourage managers to intervene proactively and discuss with subordinates whether particular religious expression is welcome if the manager believes the expression might be construed as harassing to a reasonable person.
    While supervisors are permitted to engage in certain religious expression, they should avoid expression that might – due to their supervisory authority – reasonably be perceived by subordinates as coercive, even when not so intended.
    This is what the EEOC seems to have on the matter (as it applies to the first amendment concerns about this) and the fire chief, in my opinion, is in clear violation of the bolded parts.

  9. #329
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:14 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    30,647

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    No, you can't.

    Take legal porno magazines to work tomorrow and hand them out to people. Let us know how that works out for you. Maybe distribute books about how to hook up and swing with co-workers. Stand up in the break room at work and read 50 Shades of Gray out loud to your friends everyday during lunch.
    strawman. a porno magazine is not protected by law. religious material can be more so if it was asked for. again he didn't hand it out to everyone just his friends at work.

    Honestly, tell us, do you believe any of the above ^^^ would go unchallenged at work? Would doing the above be a wise career move or do you think it would be a rather stupid career move or do you believe it would have no bearing on your career whatsoever?
    Since a porno mag isn't protected by the law then well you can be fired.
    bringing a bible or other religious material is protected by the law.

    The issue is not what happened away from work. You are being disingenuous. Nothing I have read states that he was fired for writing a book on his own time away from work. If you know that is true please post a credible city government source that contains more information than we've seen so far. Otherwise, what you are asserting is not factual.
    actually it is. he wrote the book for a bible study outside of work. someone heard about it went and bought a copy of it and then went to one of the openly gay council members and went look. the problem is the chapter in question is what the bible has to say about sexual morality. not just homosexual but all sexual morality. that includes hetrosexual morality as well.

    You see, the problem is we do not know all the details. We do know that the media, and unfortunately religious organizations, have chosen to label the issue as everything from Cochran distributing a "homosexual book" to, and most prevalently, Cochran being fired for his religious beliefs. Google it and see for yourself.

    Just spend a few moments reading what very little information is available and make an attempt to be objective.
    yea I spent a few more minutes googling into it. there are plenty of facts out there.

    you don't care what it was about because OMG someone said they don't agree with homosexuality or homosexual marriage therefore they should have their lives destroyed.
    I think you should be fired for having a distain for religious view points. you are creating a hostile work environment for publicly announcing your disagreement with people with religious view points.

    see I can present the same argument that you do.

  10. #330
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Melbourne Florida
    Last Seen
    04-18-17 @ 03:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,763

    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    He spoke against the gay agenda. Banish him from our society and kill his off spring.

Page 33 of 72 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •