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Thread: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

  1. #111
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Of course there is. Almost nothing in the Constitution prohibits private persons from discriminating against anyone, for any reason. A member of the Ku Klux Klan, for example, has a perfect right to hate the guts of every black or Jew on earth, wish them all dead, and tell his feelings to anyone who will listen. Nor can any law require him to date one of those persons, or invite them to his dinner parties. Despite what some people who never learned basic civics might want to believe, there is no "Rainbows and Unicorns" clause in the Constitution. If that mean fact gives some collectivist dim bulbs in this country a big owie and makes them feel all icky, that's just too damned bad. Individual liberty includes the right to detest and condemn certain people and actions, and to say so.

    Unless this fire chief was somehow coercing employees to accept his booklets, I don't see how what he did amounted to unconstitutional state endorsement of a particular religious belief. Nothing says any American has to approve of homosexual behavior. Many millions of people consider it immoral and unacceptable, often on religious grounds. It sounds to me like the local homosexuals screeched loudly and angrily enough to intimidate this mayor into knuckling under to them. Wait until organizations that support incest, or polygamy, or bestiality are shrieking and calling for some official's head because he dared to bruise their precious feelings by calling their sexual practices immoral. A free country is not for the thin-skinned.
    "A free country is not for the thin-skinned."
    I agree. The excessively politically correct are exactly that, the thin skinned that are doing little more than looking to be offended to take advantage of, and leverage, their protected class status to punish those with whom they disagree.

    In order to maintain free speech for everyone, you have to have enough wherewithal to ignore the free speech that you don't like, and this is where all this excessive politically over-correct fail.

    Of course the Chief should be allowed to hand out his book )off work hours), the same way that those he offers it to have the freedom to decline to accept it, and the same way that there better not be any repercussions for either accepting or declining to take the book.

    "Wait until organizations that support incest, or polygamy, or bestiality are shrieking and calling for some official's head because he dared to bruise their precious feelings by calling their sexual practices immoral."
    I figure it can't be far off now. Seems like it's just around the corner, before even Obama is out of office. I'd add NAMBLA to that list as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    I should have clarified: The workplace has no constitutional rights. If you can't keep your discriminatory comments to yourself your boss can fire you at any time. A member of the KKK can hate anyone he wants, true, but the minute he passes out a pamphlet at work he can be fired. The chief represents the government to his subordinates and has no right or moral ground to spew his religious non-sense on anyone under his authority.
    "The workplace has no constitutional rights."
    I disagree with this.

    "your boss can fire you at any time"
    True, as most states in the nation have an 'at will' employment policy. You work there at your will, and at the boss' will. Either can terminate employment at a moment's notice. It's not related to constitutional rights, as far as I understand.

    If you start handing out materials, any materials, that the boss doesn't want handed out, he can ask you to stop. If you don't, he can fire you for not following direction. Not because you are handing out stuff, and especially not that you might discriminate against someone else. Have to actually have done it before you can be fired for that.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  2. #112
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Just curious. Are you saying he should have been prohibited from handing out copies of a book he wrote to anyone who works for or with the Fire Department...period? You say "he handed them out at work and in uniform". How do you know he did it while in uniform and at work? That hasn't been reported anywhere.

    Yes, he could have given it to them in the parking lot while wearing jeans. Or in the supermarket. Or at church.
    If he distributed the book in a place and manner that was no way connected to his job, in a venue that did not require or imply compulsory attendance by any employee, I don't have a problem with that. If he did not speak publicly even in church(es) about his book or religion while in uniform, I don't have a problem with that.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  3. #113
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That's not accurate. Firemen do not waive their constitutional freedoms of speech or religion when they arrive at work, any more than teachers do. And government employees usually cannot be fired as easily as private ones. I'm sure instructors at state and community colleges all over the U.S. regularly express views at work that many people would find repugnant. Apparently the state of Colorado did not violate anyone's constitutional rights by employing a professor at Boulder who, right after 9/11, disgustingly implied that the poor souls murdered at the World Trade Center deserved just what they got. He called them "little Eichmanns," comparing them to the Nazi war criminal.

    What anyone thinks of the fire chief's morality or religious beliefs makes no difference. The issue is whether he, acting in effect as the state, coerced any person into endorsing the views contained in the booklets so far as to violate any right the Constitution guarantees, through the Fourteenth Amendment, against state infringement. I don't see where the booklet called for discrimination against homosexuals. It just expressed the religious view that homosexual acts are vulgar and undesirable. Millions of Americans believe the same.
    Dam! Beat me to it!
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  4. #114
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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Doesn't matter - religious proselytizing doesn't belong in a government workplace. Period. Separation of church and state, y'know? And if he only handed it out to "only a few people who he knew or believed shared the same views as he did", how, then did it find its way into the public eye?

    As I said above to NP, this wasn't a PC thing - it's a leadership thing. Those who work for someone need to know that particular someone is fair, firm, and impartial - they need to know they can trust him. But by that leader's own words, he puts the LGBT lifestyle down there with pederasty and bestiality.

    And if you don't think that a leader's words matter, look what happened in Russia and in several African nations after the leaders came out claiming how evil and terrible LGBT's are. It's all about the leader. That's why Napoleon said, "There are no bad regiments, only bad colonels."
    Wait - you're asking how it "found its way into the public eye"? You didn't read this link or any of the many others on this story. It's all right in there.

    Let me know when you read it and then we can discuss.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  5. #115
    Educator Amandi's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The other thread on this is at ten pages.
    That is why I am posting in this one. LOL

  6. #116
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    Re: Atlanta Ousts Fire Chief Who Has Antigay Views

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Yes, books can discriminate. More to the point power and authority can discriminate and Cochran's alleged behavior represents an abuse of authority.
    I think you are giving a mere book far too much power than it actually deserves.

    verb (used without object), discriminated, discriminating. 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality: The new law discriminates against foreigners. He discriminates in favor of his relatives.


    2. to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things.


    verb (used with object), discriminated, discriminating. 3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between; differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy.


    4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone.


    adjective 5. marked by discrimination; making or evidencing nice distinctions: discriminate people; discriminate judgments.


    Discriminate | Define Discriminate at Dictionary.com


    Inanimate objects that can do verbs? Really? No, I'm not thinking so.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  7. #117
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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Wait, it matters how many people he handed them out to?
    What does that have to do with what I posted?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #118
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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Fox News once again spins the story to fit their agenda of victimization. Not only did the Fire Chief in question hand this book out to his employees, the book itself equated homosexuality to pederasty and bestiality. Are you okay with a public official publishing and handing out a book with clear hateful remarks about a group of people? Either way, I won't lose any sleep over this guy.
    Nothing wrong with what he said, Homosexuality is an evil perversion , on the same level as the others that he also mentioned. And whether you agree with this or not, he has as much right to say so as the sickest of perverts have to say otherwise.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  9. #119
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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    A supervisor giving religious books to subordinates makes a hostile work enviroment for the people who dont agree with his views and shows favoritism to the ones who do.
    He belongs to a church that publicly expresses anti-gay sentiment. I wonder why that didn't make the work environment hostile.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Atlanta Fire Chief: I was fired because of my Christian faith

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    What does that have to do with what I posted?
    Because you mentioned a number of people in your post. "Only a few."

    The number of times he did it doesn't matter. Who he did it to doesn't matter. He's a supervisor and a public servant, it's not appropriate.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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