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Thread: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Not necessarily, the whole purpose of "contract, laws, protections, etc. (government)" is about control. To ensure an outcome that I contend the government has no Constitutional authority to enforce upon the populace. It has nothing to do with free to not have a legal marriage or not, it has to do with an unequal determination that also the government has no Constitutional authority to make. I have not missed anything, nor engaging in a Strawman (you may want to look up what that means.) By definition government interference into what is "legal marriage" for the purpose of protecting something is control.
    What's the issue here? The ultimate authority on interpreting the constitution is the SCOTUS (sorry, I have yet to read the previous discussion, my time left is short before class begins).
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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Not necessarily, the whole purpose of "contract, laws, protections, etc. (government)" is about control. To ensure an outcome that I contend the government has no Constitutional authority to enforce upon the populace. It has nothing to do with free to not have a legal marriage or not, it has to do with an unequal determination that also the government has no Constitutional authority to make. I have not missed anything, nor engaging in a Strawman (you may want to look up what that means.) By definition government interference into what is "legal marriage" for the purpose of protecting something is control.
    yes necessarily because it its not the marriage contract it will be other contracts or laws with government still involved

    and yes you most certainly used a strawman denying that fact wont change it. You stated something that was factually not true, you created a false position and then argued against it/judged it. by definition thats a strawman that your post is 100% guilty of. You might want to look that word up.

    like i said government will always be involved one way or another to those that want legal marriage and protection of rights.
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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    What's the issue here? The ultimate authority on interpreting the constitution is the SCOTUS (sorry, I have yet to read the previous discussion, my time left is short before class begins).
    Not really an "issue." I am being challenged on my position that the government has no authority to define, license, or restrict personal relationships. So, consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships for whatever purpose.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yes necessarily because it its not the marriage contract it will be other contracts or laws with government still involved

    and yes you most certainly used a strawman denying that fact wont change it. You stated something that was factually not true, you created a false position and then argued against it/judged it. by definition thats a strawman that your post is 100% guilty of. You might want to look that word up.

    like i said government will always be involved one way or another to those that want legal marriage and protection of rights.
    So you say, but it does not make it so. And I engaged in no strawman, government protections equates to control. There is no way to separate government protections from control, especially when the government without authority defines, licenses, and attempts to restrict personal relationships. So, no false position and a totally accurate assessment of what defining marriage has done. Now we need marriage equality, and the majority of the States now have it in some regard. The good news is I can be ok with marriage equality as I know the government will always be involved in marriage one way or another. Governments hate to give up control, but that does not remove my stance on the matter nor is it a strawman.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Not really an "issue." I am being challenged on my position that the government has no authority to define, license, or restrict personal relationships. So, consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships for whatever purpose.
    you are? by who?
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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    1.) So you say, but it does not make it so. And I engaged in no strawman
    2.) government protections equates to control. There is no way to separate government protections from control, especially when the government without authority defines, licenses, and attempts to restrict personal relationships. So, no false position and a totally accurate assessment of what defining marriage has done. Now we need marriage equality, and the majority of the States now have it in some regard.

    3.)The good news is I can be ok with marriage equality as I know the government will always be involved in marriage one way or another.

    4.)Governments hate to give up control, but that does not remove my stance on the matter nor is it a strawman.
    1.)I agree "me" saying doesnt make it true but facts and post history do
    this was your straman: "Worse, you are basically saying a marriage is all about finances and outside controls."

    never said this so its a strawman by definition. Your post fails and facts win again.
    2.) meaningless to anything i said, seems you want to have a NEW discussion. This is ALSO a straw man since its not being discussed by me and has nothing to do with our discussion.

    3.) exactly, good thing you finally agree with the truth

    4.) see #2
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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.)I agree "me" saying doesnt make it true but facts and post history do
    this was your straman: "Worse, you are basically saying a marriage is all about finances and outside controls."

    never said this so its a strawman by definition. Your post fails and facts win again.
    2.) meaningless to anything i said, seems you want to have a NEW discussion. This is ALSO a straw man since its not being discussed by me and has nothing to do with our discussion.

    3.) exactly, good thing you finally agree with the truth

    4.) see #2
    Because it is, marriage when defined by government is about finances and outside controls. You said it yourself on what marriage protects, which included finances. The outside control part is the government. Again, no strawman but an accurate assessment of what we get with government definition, licensing, and restrictions of (perhaps better said limitations on the rights of) personal relationships. License to marriage, conditional tax code, must go before a judge to get a divorce. Government is in the mix all along the way and with that is control. And it not meaningless, reasonable discussion since the topic is marriage controls by government. Since I know I am in the extreme minority the next best thing for me to advocate for is marriage equality. All of which I have been consistent on in this thread. Go back and check, see if you can catch me wavering in my position.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Not necessarily, the whole purpose of "contract, laws, protections, etc. (government)" is about control.
    False.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    False.
    Then what is government involvement in marriage about?
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: As gay marriages begin in Florida, Supreme Court is set to meet on issue

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Because it is, marriage when defined by government is about finances and outside controls. You said it yourself on what marriage protects, which included finances. The outside control part is the government. Again, no strawman but an accurate assessment of what we get with government definition, licensing, and restrictions of (perhaps better said limitations on the rights of) personal relationships. License to marriage, conditional tax code, must go before a judge to get a divorce. Government is in the mix all along the way and with that is control. And it not meaningless, reasonable discussion since the topic is marriage controls by government. Since I know I am in the extreme minority the next best thing for me to advocate for is marriage equality. All of which I have been consistent on in this thread. Go back and check, see if you can catch me wavering in my position.
    dishonety wont change the fact you posted a strawman and now trying to CHANGE the original strawman to a new one wont do that either

    this is strawman number one: "Worse, you are basically saying a marriage is all about finances and outside controls."
    this is a strawman because you completely made this up as i never said anything like it
    strawman number two is all of the above quote because its MEANINGLESS to anything i said and anything we discussed. You repeating the meaninglessness and not aavering from it doesnt change the fact its meaningless and a straw man.

    I made the statement government will always be involved in marriage you claimed otherwise, i explained why then you made up strawman number one, i pointed that out then you made up strawman number 2 then went off about control which is meaningless, then you admitted later that government will always be involved

    theres nothing to discuss, government will be involved and you acknowledge that fact
    I never claimed "marriage is all about finances and outside controls." you made that up and that strawman failed and was proven false
    and your opinion of control is meaningless to my point of "government will always be involved" its doesnt matter

    you need to take your own advice and go back and read the thread, thanks

    definitions and thread history all prove you wrong and facts win again
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