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Thread: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

  1. #131
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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Google is your friend.
    Google? Never heard of him/her. Oh and your little link doesnt at all explain a law pertaining to police dogs running loose on private property.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I am pretty sure that I can kill a dog that has strayed on my property.
    That depends on your local law. You can't in my city, unless the stray is attacking someone. To kill it is to invite a misdemeanor animal cruelty charge, and if you use a gun to do it then you get a firearms charge as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    A police dog is JUST A DOG. Dogs dont have RIGHTS like humans do.
    Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act. Assaulting a police K9 while it's performing it's duty is a crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    A cop cannot just shoot any human that attacks their police dog.
    Is anyone even talking about such a thing?


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    If the owner was out in the yard and he attacked the police dog on his property, the police could not just shoot the home owner.
    No one said the police could. The police would arrest the property owner and charge them for assaulting a police K9, obstruction of justice, illegal discharge of a firearm and using a firearm in the commission of a crime. Some states treat an assault upon the dog as an assault upon a law enforcement officer. Even kicking the dog is a felony.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The police have no right to enter private property on a pursuit unless there is real danger that the suspect that they were chasing was dangerous.
    That's not true at all. Police can enter your property upon probable cause to pursue a suspect regardless of the accused crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Notice that there wasnt a police statement signifying at all why they chased the guy?

    He chased the guy because the guy ran. It's just that simple. Running is, all by itself, a crime.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The police dont sound like they wish to talk about this case at all.
    Any lawyer worth his union fee is going to control information to the tightest degree legally permissible.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Because of the cop shooting a home owners legal pet we know that the cops used seemingly ridiculous amount of power to chase a guy that ran from cops because he had no damn headlight.
    If you think the guy ran because of his headlight, you know little to nothing about this topic. He was stopped because of his headlight. People run because they are wanted.


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    And this will probably be all that we ever hear about this case. Notice also that animal control showed up to help the dog and take care of the dog. Sounds like the police knew that they were in the wrong. Otherwise they would have left the care of the family pet up to the owner.
    Sounds like calling animal control is standard procedure just like calling an ambulance for a shot human is standard procedure. An accredited veterinarian will be needed for a credible report on the officer's use of a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Google? Never heard of him/her. Oh and your little link doesnt at all explain a law pertaining to police dogs running loose on private property.
    You had asked about the right of police to search your property without a warrant. No one was ever talking about dogs running loose, but of police searches.

  3. #133
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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That depends on your local law. You can't in my city, unless the stray is attacking someone. To kill it is to invite a misdemeanor animal cruelty charge, and if you use a gun to do it then you get a firearms charge as well.
    So why not google the laws where this took place instead of making assumptions?



    Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act. Assaulting a police K9 while it's performing it's duty is a crime.
    WTF does a federal law have to do with a non-federal police dog?





    Is anyone even talking about such a thing?
    Specifically your siad: "Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person." It is reasonable that the police dog provoked the home owners pet. Under Florida law then the home owners dog was within the home owners rights to attack being on his property unannounced. It is doubtful that the police dog was in any real danger in a dogfight. German Shepherds are formidable opponents and a trained and disciplined dog in a k9 unit would find the run of the mill pitbull easy prey. Its the thick neck hair that makes all the difference between the two breeds.



    No one said the police could. The police would arrest the property owner and charge them for assaulting a police K9, obstruction of justice, illegal discharge of a firearm and using a firearm in the commission of a crime. Some states treat an assault upon the dog as an assault upon a law enforcement officer. Even kicking the dog is a felony.
    You are assuming that without the benefit of actually knowing.



    That's not true at all. Police can enter your property upon probable cause to pursue a suspect regardless of the accused crime.
    True but they cannot endanger lives including domestic animals on said property. It was upto the officers to determine if a dog was on the property knowing that bringing a police dog on the property unannounced could cause the very situation that did happen. You cant tell me that a k9 unit isnt trained in the fact the MOST homeowners have a dog. They cant just go onto a property and be surprised that a dog was there. Before a police dog goes on the property a effort must be made to determine if there is a dog outside. And these are local police that should already have a clue where dogs are in the first place.





    He chased the guy because the guy ran. It's just that simple. Running is, all by itself, a crime.
    Running can be a crime, but not always. I had friends that found it fun to run from the cops, they got caught most of the time. I know of none that were charged with a crime. But in this case a guy ran and the cops called in a k9 unit which ran onto private property where the police dog was attacked by the dog that lives on that property. Was that police dog under the control of the officer? We dont know.



    Any lawyer worth his union fee is going to control information to the tightest degree legally permissible.
    Police departments have PR people that deal with these things. They usually are tight lipped if the cops are at fault. Or if there is a ongoing case which then they say that there is a ongoing case and that they cant say anything. In this case they simply are not pursuing the bike dude at all. Probably because they are too busy trying to fix their bad.



    If you think the guy ran because of his headlight, you know little to nothing about this topic. He was stopped because of his headlight. People run because they are wanted.
    Some people just run, there isnt any evidence that this person ran because he was wanted. Perhaps he just didnt like cops or didnt want a ticket. A lot of stupid people think that they can run and getaway, in fact this guy did run away and not get caught.



    Sounds like calling animal control is standard procedure just like calling an ambulance for a shot human is standard procedure. An accredited veterinarian will be needed for a credible report on the officer's use of a gun.
    Not really, as I said if the homeowners dog was being aggressive they would have killed the dog not tried to save it.

  4. #134
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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You had asked about the right of police to search your property without a warrant. No one was ever talking about dogs running loose, but of police searches.
    The k9 unit was not searching the private property for anything other than the suspect. it would have been wise to notify the homeowner that there was a suspect on their property and that they wish to search the property for him with a police dog. You keep talking about proper procedure but ignore such things like properly notifying a property owner of a search. Police do not have the endless right to do things just because they think they have probable cause in their corner. The police in this case didnt notify the homeowner probably because they didnt see the suspect as being dangerous. The k9 unit went against their training by bringing a the police dog onto property that they didnt know a dog was on. Had they spent the few minutes necessary to inform themselves if a dog was there then none of this would have happened. They didnt and because they didnt check and see if there might be a dog present not only did they have to shoot the homeowners dog but the police dog got injured and the suspect got away. It is called bad policing.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    WTF does a federal law have to do with a non-federal police dog?
    It's a federal law regarding all police dogs. Please make some attempt to improve your reading comprehension.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You will NEVER, Let me say it again.....YOU WILL NEVER get police to NOT pursue a person that runs to evade them when they are trying to stop them....That is silly to think you would.
    Many jurisdictions have limits on vehicle pursuits.

    Such as:

    "The “Balance Test” should be used as a guide in determining whether or not to pursue. An officer’s reasonable suspicion must be based upon the facts perceived by the officer at that time. Factors, which can be used incontinuously assessing the need for apprehension versus risk created by the pursuit, are set forth below. Other factors may be considered in addition to those criteria listed below......

    Balance Test – Factors to be Considered: Public safety, Nature of offense and apparent circumstances, Officer safety, Vehicle Code requirements, Passenger in officer’s vehicle (e.g., citizen, witness, prisoner), Pedestrian and vehicular traffic patterns and volume, Other persons in or on pursued vehicle (e.g., passengers, co-offenders, hostages), Location of the pursuit (e.g., school zone, playground, residential, downtown, jurisdiction)....."

    http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/vp_guidelines.pdf

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    "...Most agencies also have significant procedural controls for a pursuit. These often start during the event with policies requiring a supervisor to monitor the pursuit.11 Many agencies have a set of special pursuit reports that officers and supervisors have to prepare after an event, and these reports are reviewed up the chain of command. Most agencies have a policy that explicitly states an officer may never be disciplined for terminating a pursuit, but can be disciplined for pursuit policy violations where the pursuit is improper..."
    Police Chief Magazine - View Article

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Because I will fire on anyone that draws on my dogs. I'm not kidding, they dont deserve to die because of police incompetence and I dont break the law. So they have no right to be on my property except by accident (still no right) or controlling *themselves* if they need to knock on my door for information.
    That's not entirely true, and neither of your modifiers covers all of the circumstances that might result in cops being on your property.

    In law there's something called "exigent circumstances" that allows cops access to pretty much anywhere if they believe that their need to be there trumps your property rights.

    If the cops are chasing a fleeing suspect, as was the case in the OP article, or if they were looking for a missing child, or if they believed that a fleeing suspect threw some sort of "contraband" over your fence, then they'd have the legal right to come on to your property and the legal right to defend themselves from a threatening dog.

    I'm not saying that any of this is right, but it is the way it is.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy



    "...The most critical element of any pursuit is the need to match the level of control exerted to the degree of risk posed by the fleeing individual. In other words, what is the degree of risk posed to the public by the offense committed by the individual, and what is the degree of risk posed to the public should the fleeing individual make good his or her escape, and be free to commit the offense again?..."
    The Police Policy Studies Council

  10. #140
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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's a federal law regarding all police dogs. Please make some attempt to improve your reading comprehension.
    I think that it is you the needs to brush up on your reading comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This what you did not read.

    18 U.S. Code § 1368 - Harming animals used in law enforcement

    (a) Whoever willfully and maliciously harms any police animal, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not more than 1 year. If the offense permanently disables or disfigures the animal, or causes serious bodily injury to or the death of the animal, the maximum term of imprisonment shall be 10 years.

    (b) In this section, the term “police animal” means a dog or horse employed by a Federal agency (whether in the executive, legislative, or judicial branch) for the principal purpose of aiding in the detection of criminal activity, enforcement of laws, or apprehension of criminal offenders.


    This federal code has zero to do with State or local law enforcement. "employed by a Federal agency" Local law enforcement and even State law enforcement are not a Federal agency, or are you trying to tell me otherwise?

    Did you forget how to use google, I heard it is your friend. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    The key here is that the suspect was not armed or dangerous, he was just running which is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor. Legally the police had zero right to go onto the property that the pitbull was on chasing their suspect.

    And I also have to wonder how the suspect did escape with the police copter flying above? Perhaps the bike dude is just a story for why their k9 ran off and attacked a homeowner's dog?

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