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Thread: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't believe you have the knowledge to make this declarative statement...I'd like to see you back this up, as in posting all police departments in the United States and jurisdictions in such, procedures for cases of fleeing apprehensions...I think you'll find in short order, that you couldn't be MORE wrong.
    I know that there is a large range of policies regarding pursuit criteria and procedures, many of them focused on pursuit of a vehicle by a vehicle. Also, there are many places that have chosen not to have helicopters and there are places that can't afford one. However, I am discussing actual police practices, not the official rules. Most departments are too busy to do that type of search without reason to believe the person is dangerous because there will be a much more urgent need for those resources elsewhere. The action in this case is unusual, if it wasn't, there would be many more cases of pets killed by police if they routinely used dogs to chase escaping bicyclists and pedestrians through private property in residential areas.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-10-15 at 06:16 PM.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Running is reason to believe the person is dangerous. The only people who run from cops are people with active warrants.

    And using a helicopter and K9 isn't escalation anyway.
    Running is a sign that the person is not looking for a confrontation. Much more likely, the person who fled may have had some pot on him, been an illegal alien or had another unpaid citation. Probably not worth killing someone's pet.

    Bringing in a copter and K9 is an escalation of the resources devoted to catching the subject, I didn't mean escalation of force or violence.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Running is a sign that the person is not looking for a confrontation. Much more likely, the person who fled may have had some pot on him, been an illegal alien or had another unpaid citation. Probably not worth killing someone's pet.
    The pet was killed because it attacked, not because a human ran from a cop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Bringing in a copter and K9 is an escalation of the resources devoted to catching the subject, I didn't mean escalation of force or violence.
    "Escalation or resources"...you're grasping. Both assets were already in use, money already being speant on them. No additional funds were used by calling them in. It truly is a non-issue.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The pet was killed because it attacked, not because a human ran from a cop.


    "Escalation or resources"...you're grasping. Both assets were already in use, money already being speant on them. No additional funds were used by calling them in. It truly is a non-issue.
    Oh come on the police dog trespassed on the pitbulls property and got attacked for its misdeeds. Just about any dog would attack another dog that wandered onto their property.

    The irony of this is that 30 years a go people were just as upset of German Shepherds as they are now about Pitbulls, most police dogs are German Shepherds.

    Another factor that the anti-pitbull crowd ignores is that pitbulls are very popular. There are a lot more pitbulls out there than any other breed in many areas. Pitbulls have joined the rank of popularly feared dog breeds:German Shepherds, Doberman pinschers, Rottweilers, Wolf hybrids, Malamutes, Husky's, Chow's, Boxer's, Bullmastiff, And St. Bernards for a while because of one movie.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Oh come on the police dog trespassed on the pitbulls property and got attacked for its misdeeds. Just about any dog would attack another dog that wandered onto their property.

    The irony of this is that 30 years a go people were just as upset of German Shepherds as they are now about Pitbulls, most police dogs are German Shepherds.

    Another factor that the anti-pitbull crowd ignores is that pitbulls are very popular. There are a lot more pitbulls out there than any other breed in many areas. Pitbulls have joined the rank of popularly feared dog breeds:German Shepherds, Doberman pinschers, Rottweilers, Wolf hybrids, Malamutes, Husky's, Chow's, Boxer's, Bullmastiff, And St. Bernards for a while because of one movie.
    It's not trespassing when the K9 has the right to be there, which it did.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I know that there is a large range of policies regarding pursuit criteria and procedures, many of them focused on pursuit of a vehicle by a vehicle. Also, there are many places that have chosen not to have helicopters and there are places that can't afford one. However, I am discussing actual police practices, not the official rules. Most departments are too busy to do that type of search without reason to believe the person is dangerous because there will be a much more urgent need for those resources elsewhere. The action in this case is unusual, if it wasn't, there would be many more cases of pets killed by police if they routinely used dogs to chase escaping bicyclists and pedestrians through private property in residential areas.
    You will NEVER, Let me say it again.....YOU WILL NEVER get police to NOT pursue a person that runs to evade them when they are trying to stop them....That is silly to think you would.
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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    It may interest some to know that SCOTUS has ruled that police use of a K9 to pursue a fleeing a suspect is appropriate: Case Law :: Patrol :: United States Police Canine Association

    Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person.

    Even if using a police K9 to pursue a fleeing suspect were excessive force, which it's not, and even if said K9 running through your yard were trespassing, which it's not, you still aren't justified in attacking it. You are justified in filing a 'you darn kids stay off my lawn' complaint with the department in the morning and moving on with your life. In many states, attacking that K9 is identical to assaulting a law enforcement officer, so keep your dogs in check.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's not trespassing when the K9 has the right to be there, which it did.
    What law gives a police dog the right to search private property without the police having a search warrant?

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What law gives a police dog the right to search private property without the police having a search warrant?
    ]When is a Warrant Not Required?

    There are times when police can perform a search without a warrant, and most searches actually do occur without warrants being issued. That is not to say the police can barge into your home and search it without a warrant; if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and there is not probable cause, a search warrant is required. However, if probable cause does occur, such as the suspect runs away, a gunshot is heard from another room in a home, or even when an individual makes a sudden movement, a search becomes legal without a warrant. Even with a reasonable expectation of privacy, the police can legally conduct a search without a warrant in situations in which certain exemptions*apply.
    Google is your friend.

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    Re: Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It may interest some to know that SCOTUS has ruled that police use of a K9 to pursue a fleeing a suspect is appropriate: Case Law :: Patrol :: United States Police Canine Association

    Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person.

    Even if using a police K9 to pursue a fleeing suspect were excessive force, which it's not, and even if said K9 running through your yard were trespassing, which it's not, you still aren't justified in attacking it. You are justified in filing a 'you darn kids stay off my lawn' complaint with the department in the morning and moving on with your life. In many states, attacking that K9 is identical to assaulting a law enforcement officer, so keep your dogs in check.
    I am pretty sure that I can kill a dog that has strayed on my property. A police dog is JUST A DOG. Dogs dont have RIGHTS like humans do. A cop cannot just shoot any human that attacks their police dog. If the owner was out in the yard and he attacked the police dog on his property, the police could not just shoot the home owner. The police have no right to enter private property on a pursuit unless there is real danger that the suspect that they were chasing was dangerous. And in this case the police are not looking for the bicycle dude, indicating that he is not a perceived danger then or now. Obviously they were just pissed that the guy ran away and they were going to get the guy that dared to defy them.

    Notice that there wasnt a police statement signifying at all why they chased the guy? The police dont sound like they wish to talk about this case at all. Most likely it is an embarrassment. Because of the cop shooting a home owners legal pet we know that the cops used seemingly ridiculous amount of power to chase a guy that ran from cops because he had no damn headlight. And this will probably be all that we ever hear about this case. Notice also that animal control showed up to help the dog and take care of the dog. Sounds like the police knew that they were in the wrong. Otherwise they would have left the care of the family pet up to the owner.

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