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Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

US Conservative said:
No, Im asking the individual to rectify an individual issue. Without it he's nothing but a drain on society.
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If society has created an inefficient system, society should rectify that inefficiency.
 
j-mac said:
Taking the actions that Pacini took aren't that of a mentally ill person, but rather that of a criminal trying to allude arrest. His mental state is debatable...Do you have any evidence that Pacini was under mental care? Also, your sentence structure that I responded to seems to point to something that you think police did wrong in that situation, is that the case in your mind? And what do you think they should have done differently?
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I didn't intend to give the impression I thought the cops were wrong, no.
While he may not have been under mental care, he certainly should have been, as his actions attest. Do his actions look to you like someone well balanced mentally?
 
US Conservative said:
Society can't rectify individuals shortcomings. There aren't a bunch of welfare queens with 9 different baby-daddy's because of society, guy.
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B.S. Society is a rectification of shortcomings. No person enters society educated, trained, capable of communicating, with access to technology, infrastructure, etc.

Everything a person becomes is a product of society. The language you speak, the education you have, the safety you've experienced, the people you have access to. Etc.

For good and bad, it's society that's shaped every aspect of your life and theirs.
 
Unrepresented said:
B.S. Society is a rectification of shortcomings. No person enters society educated, trained, capable of communicating, with access to technology, infrastructure, etc.

Everything a person becomes is a product of society. The language you speak, the education you have, the safety you've experienced, the people you have access to. Etc.

For good and bad, it's society that's shaped every aspect of your life and theirs.
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As a leftist, I think its natural for you to underestimate the responsibility of the individual.
 
soot said:
You can make this a semantic circle jerk all you want.

Fact is that tactically all most cops have is a hammer so they necessarily see every problem as a nail.

Due to a little thought policing (understand that he made no specific, credible threat, just spouted off generally on the Internet a little) they identified this guy as a potential criminal and went after him like he was an existential threat to the future of America.

If the idiots had actually put any thought at all into what they were doing they would have easily identified this guy as a very mentally sick person and addressed the situation from a medical perspective.

Instead they rallied up the SWAT team in preparation for serving a no-knock warrant and while the "operators" were masturbating over the thought of blasting in of this guy's door at 0300, the guy decided to go out for a drive.

The cops saw their opportunity to act like jack booted thugs going up in smoke they took the show on the road.

Now, I won't pretend to know the absolute best way to deal with that situation, but as an educated and generally pretty intelligent person I can surmise that there have to be better options than the route they went.

Like, they could have maybe stopped him while he was walking down the street, brought some paramedics along with them, and approached him/the situation as being one of medical concern, rather than acting like it was the second raid on Abbottabad.
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The more I think about this post the more dumbfounded I am.

I worked in law enforcement for 7 years. During that time I served many mental commitment papers on people as a part of my work in Patrol.

You are extremely naive if you think for a second that someone isn't going to put up resistance to being detained if you change the name from arrest to commitment.

We had to use force several times while serving commitment papers on people. It makes no difference what the title of the detention is called, it is the fact that one is being DETAINED in the first place.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I didn't intend to give the impression I thought the cops were wrong, no.
While he may not have been under mental care, he certainly should have been, as his actions attest. Do his actions look to you like someone well balanced mentally?
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His actions look like someone desperate to avoid arrest, and caring not whom he hurts to do so, in which case the police acted correctly, and this is NOT news as ot happens every day in thos country.
 
j-mac said:
His actions look like someone desperate to avoid arrest, and caring not whom he hurts to do so, in which case the police acted correctly, and this is NOT news as ot happens every day in thos country.
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People threaten to kill the police every day? Now, that's a sad commentary, isn't it?
 
US Conservative said:
So you know how your fellow lefties think, am I right?
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No, I dont assume I know how other people think no matter what *other people* call them or they call themselves.

If you tried to do so about me, for example, you'd be wrong on many fronts. That applies to the majority of people. Extremists locked into a singular and rigid mindset are the minority fortunately

*takes off school marm cap*
 
Lursa said:
No, I dont assume I know how other people think no matter what *other people* call them or they call themselves.

If you tried to do so about me, for example, you'd be wrong on many fronts. That applies to the majority of people. Extremists locked into a singular and rigid mindset are the minority fortunately

*takes off school marm cap*
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I dont recall saying anything about assumptions.
 
Unrepresented said:
The ten minutes of "race baiting" aren't the issue, it's the generations of abuse. You're seeing this as an isolated incident instead of seeing it in a historic perspective.
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"Generations of abuse" let's bring that in to focus. If my grandfather was a victim of something I am intelligent enough to grasp the concept that was then and this is now, to do otherwise is simply using the past as an excuse to break the laws. A gun is used by the NYPD once in every 300,000 confrontations with civilians today. How does that compare with 100 years ago? You tell me. "Historic Prospective", my butt. It is antagonistic to keep bring up slavery and the civil rights abuses of the past as an excuse. Seems to me I don't see minorities protesting billions of welfare dollars going to the "poor", "poor " meaning those people that quit school, have no fathers, are addicted to booze and drugs, have never so much as thought of trying to improve their lives blaming the white race for everything wrong in their lives.What was the color of the skin of the persons that sold human beings to slavers? The sellers are 50% of the slave trade are they not?
 
rhinefire said:
"Generations of abuse" let's bring that in to focus. If my grandfather was a victim of something I am intelligent enough to grasp the concept that was then and this is now, to do otherwise is simply using the past as an excuse to break the laws. A gun is used by the NYPD once in every 300,000 confrontations with civilians today. How does that compare with 100 years ago? You tell me. "Historic Prospective", my butt. It is antagonistic to keep bring up slavery and the civil rights abuses of the past as an excuse. Seems to me I don't see minorities protesting billions of welfare dollars going to the "poor", "poor " meaning those people that quit school, have no fathers, are addicted to booze and drugs, have never so much as thought of trying to improve their lives blaming the white race for everything wrong in their lives.What was the color of the skin of the persons that sold human beings to slavers? The sellers are 50% of the slave trade are they not?
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Racism and its impacts didn't stop in 1865.
 
Caine said:
As I said....

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LOL

Yeah.

Because law enforcement is so complicated there's no way a "civilian" could possibly grasp it.

Look, you can say whatever you want.

But when folks like me (white, upper middle class, fairly conservative, veterans) start questioning the way cops are doing business it doesn't bode well for cops.

Traditionally I'm the kind of guy that you find in law enforcement's corner.

So whatever. Pretend that there isn't a problem.

And when cops get shot and the community's response is, "Mehhh", don't act like you don't understand why.
 
Lursa said:
That did not put the officers or the public at more risk? Certainly their safety was more important than a man who had *made threats* and was in control of a lethal weapon and had already used THAT to threaten officers.
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In response to what I've bolded, no, their safety isn't more important.
 
Unrepresented said:
Think of it like the straw that broke the camel's back. That final straw wasn't particularly heavy, but if you heap enough straw on it already, you eventually have enough weight to snap its spine.
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You don't mean brown do you? Because that is a poor choice of straws. He was a scumbag.
 
11Bravo said:
Yes. He attacked someone. That's called "Assault". It's the same in every state.
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Yes, a couple of someones, the store owner and the cop.

Yet, the headline that kept being repeated was "white cop shoots unarmed black teenager" instead of "thug commits strong arm robbery, attacks cop, gets shot for his trouble. Good job."

Oh, and he was walking down the middle of the street at night. Too bad some black guy didn't run over him. We'd never have even heard of the incident.
 
stonewall50 said:
You don't mean brown do you? Because that is a poor choice of straws. He was a scumbag.
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Even if he did mean Brown, when the original riots and unrest began, the story reported was eyewitnesses saw police shoot an unarmed guy who was running away.
 
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