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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Reality isn't just.

    But more applicably, my understanding is that legally, police officers and in some cases private individuals are allowed to defend themselves against what they consider to be a threat to their life - by applying lethal force if the situation warrants it.

    It is my further understanding that this is the case because it is currently considered the best of the available options, by the society we live in.

    If you're arguing that the law and interpretation thereof is incorrect, that is something for you to work towards changing.


    But the current state of affairs is in place because the society we live in has determined it is best...so you have to change minds and get them to change laws if you want it different.

    Whether it is unjust in your opinion is effectively irrelevant, unless you can convince enough others to agree.
    Everything posted on this board amounts to the opinions of people with no real power. I'm just another voicing a concern from conflicts I perceive in our application of justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Are you going to shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand like they used to do in the old western movies?
    I don't own a gun, so that's an unlikely event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So the cop forfeits his life because he didnt shoot the lethal danger (to the public as well, which it's his job to protect) as soon as he saw him? Or he didnt run away, therefore also not doing his job? Or calling back up and waiting while the shovel-weilder beat others?

    Again....blaming the victim and no honest answer because your selfish and unrealistic view cannot be supported honestly.

    I guess it was your daughter's fault for not escaping fast enough when the rapist grabbed her. Or not knowing martial arts to disable him? So she forfeited her body and possibly her life and any (armed) bystander should just let him rape her while calling 911 and waiting for the cops to get out there on the jogging trail?

    Yes? No? Please, pick one. Or admit that there is no way to honestly support your position.
    The cop isn't protecting someone by killing them. Even the accused is still a member of the public and entitled to protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    In your opinion, what actions on the part of a person are sufficient to reach the threshold at which you would support a police officer or private citizen killing them?
    Ideally none. I see "justifiable homicide" as the failure to prevent escalation. If we're preventing the escalation, we don't have reasons to reach "kill or be killed" moments.

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    So you are refusing to answer my question? If someone pulled a gun on you, and you were armed, what would be your actions? Be specific for us.
    A)I wouldn't be armed.

    B) Comply. If they have a loaded, lethal weapon aimed at me and I don't have a loaded lethal weapon aimed at them I have almost no option but to comply.

    C) If I did have a loaded, lethal weapon on me, I can't aim it at everyone who may aim their loaded, lethal weapon at me.

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking you to answer the self defense question that you've been dodging all week. If you were armed, and someone pulled a gun on you, what would be your actions. Please be specific for us.

    I'll paint the scenario (this is a real scenario from last month I read about in the NYP):

    You are walking home from work. You walk past two men who have just shot a man they were robbing. You see this happen, and they see you. They realize you are a witness. They then turn their guns on you and charge at you. They are getting closer, they are about 40 feet away. Realizing that they are now splitting up to make sure you don't run, you are trapped, you have a glock on your waist, what happens next?

    Please be vivid.
    At that point continue running and seek a safe, secure location to hide until police come so that I can give information about the crime I witnessed. I don't carry a gun, nor do I wish to.

    The situation you're describing is best prevented earlier, rather than dealt with at the stage you're describing.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Everything posted on this board amounts to the opinions of people with no real power. I'm just another voicing a concern from conflicts I perceive in our application of justice.

    I don't own a gun, so that's an unlikely event.



    The cop isn't protecting someone by killing them. Even the accused is still a member of the public and entitled to protection.



    Ideally none. I see "justifiable homicide" as the failure to prevent escalation. If we're preventing the escalation, we don't have reasons to reach "kill or be killed" moments.



    A)I wouldn't be armed.

    B) Comply. If they have a loaded, lethal weapon aimed at me and I don't have a loaded lethal weapon aimed at them I have almost no option but to comply.

    C) If I did have a loaded, lethal weapon on me, I can't aim it at everyone who may aim their loaded, lethal weapon at me.


    At that point continue running and seek a safe, secure location to hide until police come so that I can give information about the crime I witnessed. I don't carry a gun, nor do I wish to.

    The situation you're describing is best prevented earlier, rather than dealt with at the stage you're describing.
    Ok it's clear you are intentionally dodging the questions. I suspect your age to be very young, hence why you have so much ignorance in the subject. I mean, there's no lawmaker in the world that would side with you. There is no country in the world that doesn't allow self defense. There's a reason for that. Your argument is nonexistant. Are you on any medication that could be clouding your judgement? I do not mean that as an insult, I am wondering if maybe something is preventing you from responding to my question and understanding the facts.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Ok it's clear you are intentionally dodging the questions. I suspect your age to be very young, hence why you have so much ignorance in the subject. I mean, there's no lawmaker in the world that would side with you. There is no country in the world that doesn't allow self defense. There's a reason for that. Your argument is nonexistant. Are you on any medication that could be clouding your judgement? I do not mean that as an insult, I am wondering if maybe something is preventing you from responding to my question and understanding the facts.
    I don't think you fully understand my viewpoint.

    The various scenarios that every poster keeps inventing ignores the potential for avoiding the scenario beforehand.

    "What do you do when you've allowed your foot to get infected to the point of having to cut it off?"

    The correct answer isn't "cut it off" the correct answer is "don't let it get that infected."
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I don't think you fully understand my viewpoint.

    The various scenarios that every poster keeps inventing ignores the potential for avoiding the scenario beforehand.

    "What do you do when you've allowed your foot to get infected to the point of having to cut it off?"

    The correct answer isn't "cut it off" the correct answer is "don't let it get that infected."
    Or live a life of running.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Or live a life of running.
    Less people die running than from gunshots.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I don't think you fully understand my viewpoint.

    The various scenarios that every poster keeps inventing ignores the potential for avoiding the scenario beforehand.

    "What do you do when you've allowed your foot to get infected to the point of having to cut it off?"

    The correct answer isn't "cut it off" the correct answer is "don't let it get that infected."
    Guess what, Unrepresented, it's impossible to stop every foot from getting infected. I don't know what kind of insane theory that is, but it's physically impossible. Eventually you have to cut if off when it gets bad.

    Just like you have to kill savage animals like Brown WHILE they are trying to kill you. It's how it works. Your vision of Earth is quite hilarious. It reminds me of a hippie in the 60's actually believing that violence will go away. That savage animals like Brown will cease to exist.

    Sorry bro. Welcome to real life!

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Less people die running than from gunshots.
    I dont/won't live in fear.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Something similar to this happened on the base in San Diego about 5 years ago. It was over an onbase DUI and the guy survived. He was trying to run over any of the cops onbase that were in his way while he was trying to get off base again (even though they had already activated the barricades at the gates).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Guess what, Unrepresented, it's impossible to stop every foot from getting infected. I don't know what kind of insane theory that is, but it's physically impossible. Eventually you have to cut if off when it gets bad.

    Just like you have to kill savage animals like Brown WHILE they are trying to kill you. It's how it works. Your vision of Earth is quite hilarious. It reminds me of a hippie in the 60's actually believing that violence will go away. That savage animals like Brown will cease to exist.

    Sorry bro. Welcome to real life!
    Through education and access to resources you can prevent losing virtually any foot. I believe the same can be argued for denying citizens due process.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I dont/won't live in fear.
    I'd argue that the person feeling compelled to carry a lethal weapon around lives in greater fear than the one who doesn't feel the need.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'd argue that the person feeling compelled to carry a lethal weapon around lives in greater fear than the one who doesn't feel the need.
    Sure you would....What makes you think that people like me walk around "compelled to carry a lethal weapon"? Although I am a CCW holder, I do not carry everywhere I go...But one thing you have to understand is that although you may want to go through life "avoiding" things, that isn't for everybody, or really anybody...It can't be done successfully your entire life...See, there is this uncontrollable factor, called other people...Some are dangerous, some are crazy, and some just don't give a ****...So, if you want to give it a try, go ahead...This is a free country, and I don't look down on you for wanting to do so, but you seem to look down on those that don't think like you do...Sorry for that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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