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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He refuses to directly answer that. He says that self defense is wrong because it deprives the attacker of 'justice.'

    So then yes, you must allow them to kill you or another if there is no other escape. But he wont admit that.
    Admit it or not, it's reality. The story in the OP is a prime example.

    Most people will never have to face a kill or be killed scenario unless they become cops or soldiers, but that doesn't mean that we forfeit the right to act appropriately in our own defense should we ever be in that situation.

    If I were the one whose life was in danger, Unrepresented would be the last one I'd want to be armed and ready to act. He'd want to conduct a trial before pulling the trigger.
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I disagree with your view that self defense laws are appropriately limited, the statistics for citizens killed by police suggests that law enforcement is given far too much leeway:



    If this was reality, unarmed men wouldn't be getting killed while armed men go free.



    Extrapolate my earlier response.



    I have a right to defend myself. Killing the other person isn't defending myself.



    And maybe the attacker is a vampire, and has laser beams he shoots from his eyes, and other unrealistic additions meant to prey on societal fears that rarely occur.
    65% of fights that involve one person having a weapon to assault with, result in the death of the other person being attacked. Meaning, 65% of those people are doomed to die because they can't shoot the person attacking them because they were unarmed (using a gun for example). Had they had a weapon, they could have lived.

    Uniform Crime Report. I keep asking you to look at it and you refuse.

    If someone is about to shoot you, and YOU have a gun, are you just going to let them shoot you? Hell no! You're going to take yours out and fire and hope you live! Sure it would be nice to have great aim and to shoot the guy in the hand, making him drop the gun. Chances are, you'll hit them somewhere where they are going to bleed a lot (chest or stomach area). That doesn't mean you intended to kill them. It means you defended yourself by shooting your attacker. That's why it's justifiable.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So again...no answer? Is it not possible to provide a direct answer to any question that threatens your position?
    Defense is escaping, disarming, seeking shelter, getting assistance, trapping, calming, avoiding, etc.

    If you're using a weapon you're not defending.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Defense is escaping, disarming, seeking shelter, getting assistance, trapping, calming, avoiding, etc.

    If you're using a weapon you're not defending.
    Then by all means, let's get rid of all of the weapons owned by the cops and military. They can defend us by escaping, disarming, seeking shelter, getting assistance, trapping, calming, avoiding, etc.
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Defense is escaping, disarming, seeking shelter, getting assistance, trapping, calming, avoiding, etc.

    If you're using a weapon you're not defending.
    No, factually NONE of those things is defense except perhaps disarming.

    And you know it too. So you are lying. And making up stuff to admit that your position has no foundation in reality OR justice.

    You need a dictionary for more than just 'justice,' that's apparent.

    You are factually wrong in your description.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, you allow them to kill someone else.
    There's no guarantee that anyone's killing anyone. You're advocating brinksmanship based on fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He refuses to directly answer that. He says that self defense is wrong because it deprives the attacker of 'justice.'

    So then yes, you must allow them to kill you or another if there is no other escape. But he wont admit that.
    If there's no escape, there's no escape. Lethal violence or death is almost always a false dichotomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Admit it or not, it's reality. The story in the OP is a prime example.

    Most people will never have to face a kill or be killed scenario unless they become cops or soldiers, but that doesn't mean that we forfeit the right to act appropriately in our own defense should we ever be in that situation.

    If I were the one whose life was in danger, Unrepresented would be the last one I'd want to be armed and ready to act. He'd want to conduct a trial before pulling the trigger.
    I also imagine I'd be the one you'd prefer behind the trigger if you'd made a mistake rather than a trigger happy vigilante with an "us or them" mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    65% of fights that involve one person having a weapon to assault with, result in the death of the other person being attacked. Meaning, 65% of those people are doomed to die because they can't shoot the person attacking them because they were unarmed (using a gun for example). Had they had a weapon, they could have lived.

    Uniform Crime Report. I keep asking you to look at it and you refuse.

    If someone is about to shoot you, and YOU have a gun, are you just going to let them shoot you? Hell no! You're going to take yours out and fire and hope you live! Sure it would be nice to have great aim and to shoot the guy in the hand, making him drop the gun. Chances are, you'll hit them somewhere where they are going to bleed a lot (chest or stomach area). That doesn't mean you intended to kill them. It means you defended yourself by shooting your attacker. That's why it's justifiable.
    You seem to be arguing, based on my link that the people killed by people claiming "self defense" should've been armed.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    There's no guarantee that anyone's killing anyone. You're advocating brinksmanship based on fear.



    If there's no escape, there's no escape. Lethal violence or death is almost always a false dichotomy.



    I also imagine I'd be the one you'd prefer behind the trigger if you'd made a mistake rather than a trigger happy vigilante with an "us or them" mentality.



    You seem to be arguing, based on my link that the people killed by people claiming "self defense" should've been armed.
    No i'm trying to get you to directly answer the self defense question. I proposed a very common case.

    If you are armed, and someone decides they are going to shoot you, would you not take out your weapon and fire back to preserve your life? Or would you feel that they should kill you?

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    No i'm trying to get you to directly answer the self defense question. I proposed a very common case.

    If you are armed, and someone decides they are going to shoot you, would you not take out your weapon and fire back to preserve your life? Or would you feel that they should kill you?
    My first goal would be to protect my own life, not to kill another person.

    The two actions are not the same.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post

    If there's no escape, there's no escape. Lethal violence or death is almost always a false dichotomy.
    So the cop with the broken arm and broken leg continuing to be bludgeoned by a man with a shovel: false dichotomy? How was he escaping?

    False dichotomy: yes or no?

    Again: should he have allowed the attack to continue rather than use lethal force?

    It's a yes or no question. Try it: yes no. Pick one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The state obviously didn't make my parents compulsory breed me, but the state did provide all the factors that led to my parents meeting, breeding, and giving birth to me.

    You must be a romantic...
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