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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #461
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post

    Both have eyes and both have rights to retain both eyes. I'm not prepared to deny a citizen constitutional rights without a very, very significant justification. Perception of threat isn't necessarily a legitimate reason to deny them -- I'm surprised a libertarian would disagree with this analysis.

    I'm not the one who would be denying anyone the right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. That would be the attacker. In the case of the guy who wanted to run over the cops, that would be the driver, not the cops, trying to deny someone of their rights.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post


    I don't endorse anyone raping or killing anyone, which seems to be your repeated implication.

    I do endorse the least amount of infringement of constitutional rights on as many many people as possible. Legally permitting "self defense" is a conflict to retaining the greatest constitutional rights for the most people.
    No, that has clearly not been the question. You are/desire to remove the option of lethal force that in those cases, would SAVE them. Their lives.

    No one is endorsing crime of any kind here and you just used this lie to avoid answering the question again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa
    It's interesting that you think the act of rape or being bludgeoned by a shovel are only 'perceived' risks to life. Or maybe you think women should allow themselves to raped, since it's not generally fatal (I mean hey, sometimes they let you live after, right? Another yes or no question: a cop with a broken arm and leg should allow a man to continue to bludgeon him with a shovel. Is there any chance that you can answer this honestly? You have not yet, not a single time.

    C'mon now...let's see you support your selfless moral conviction and put it into words: Yes, in those three incidents, they should have just allowed the deaths or rape of your daughter.

    And this one's an easy yes or no answer
    Making "self defense" illegal is a conflict to retaining the greatest constitutional rights for the most people. It's not about numbers....our justice system is based on more than numbers. It's about providing justice for those in the right....just like our laws protecting minorities from discrimination and abuse. The idea of expecting someone to die before their attacker can be tried in court is insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The epistemology of how they came to their ideology and the ideology itself are two different things. I can appreciate and support the Bill of Rights even if I view the rationale behind their crafting to be primitive.
    Whoa there professor....I'm a simple guy....You want to put this into english for me?
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Show me where on the constitution I'm missing the asterisk that denies you multiple rights if a police officer subjectively determines you're trying to murder them.

    The epistemology of how they came to their ideology and the ideology itself are two different things. I can appreciate and support the Bill of Rights even if I view the rationale behind their crafting to be primitive.

    Both have eyes and both have rights to retain both eyes. I'm not prepared to deny a citizen constitutional rights without a very, very significant justification. Perception of threat isn't necessarily a legitimate reason to deny them -- I'm surprised a libertarian would disagree with this analysis.


    I don't endorse anyone raping or killing anyone, which seems to be your repeated implication.

    I do endorse the least amount of infringement of constitutional rights on as many many people as possible. Legally permitting "self defense" is a conflict to retaining the greatest constitutional rights for the most people.
    Your questions are irrelevant because you are LYING. The police officer did NOT attack brown. Brown attacked the police officer, giving the police officer the right to use lethal force. Hell, while brown attacked him, brown tried to murder him in cold blood with his firearm. Luckily, the officer is very brave, and highly trained and was able to put the savage animal down.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'm not the one who would be denying anyone the right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. That would be the attacker. In the case of the guy who wanted to run over the cops, that would be the driver, not the cops, trying to deny someone of their rights.
    You're half right. The attacker was attempting to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The people who killed him also did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No, that has clearly not been the question. You are/desire to remove the option of lethal force that in those cases, would SAVE them. Their lives.

    No one is endorsing crime of any kind here and you just used this lie to avoid answering the question again.
    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    I'm going to type that again to let it sink it:

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Making "self defense" illegal is a conflict to retaining the greatest constitutional rights for the most people. It's not about numbers....our justice system is based on more than numbers. It's about providing justice for those in the right....just like our laws protecting minorities from discrimination and abuse. The idea of expecting someone to die before their attacker can be tried in court is insane.
    Neither party has been recognized by the state as having committed a crime. They should both be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

    Just because you see one as "the bad guy" doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't provide due process. You're not and should not be the justice system. It's called a system for a reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Whoa there professor....I'm a simple guy....You want to put this into english for me?
    I disagree with the rationale behind "natural rights" even if I think that the Constitutional rights it affords are valuable.
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Your questions are irrelevant because you are LYING. The police officer did NOT attack brown. Brown attacked the police officer, giving the police officer the right to use lethal force. Hell, while brown attacked him, brown tried to murder him in cold blood with his firearm. Luckily, the officer is very brave, and highly trained and was able to put the savage animal down.
    If the officer used lethal force, that's attacking.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're half right. The attacker was attempting to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The people who killed him also did.

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    I'm going to type that again to let it sink it:

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    Neither party has been recognized by the state as having committed a crime. They should both be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

    Just because you see one as "the bad guy" doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't provide due process. You're not and should not be the justice system. It's called a system for a reason.

    I disagree with the rationale behind "natural rights" even if I think that the Constitutional rights it affords are valuable.

    If the officer used lethal force, that's attacking.
    "You're half right. The attacker was attempting to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The people who killed him also did.". Lol, I'm actually whole-right. The judicial system proved my version true, and yours false. As Brown tried to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (lol) of Wilson. Luckily, and we all thank god for this, Wilson was highly trained and focused and was able to over-power the savage animal and put him to rest.

    "If the officer used lethal force, that's attacking." in a literal sence, absolutely, you are right. That's like saying the French police attacked the terrorists. In the eyes of the LAW, you are wrong. Legal lethal force is a necessary precaution, not an attack.

    Lol, I'm enjoying this argument.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    I'm going to type that again to let it sink it:

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    And you are arguing that if people can save themselves thru lethal force, they legally and morally may not and must allow themselves to be killed or raped.

    Now....does that sound rational at all? Of course, you still refused to answer specifically if the cops and the daughter should indeed have allowed themselves to continue to be attacked until death/raped. Seems like moral quicksand since you cannot stand up and articulate it honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    "You're half right. The attacker was attempting to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The people who killed him also did.". Lol, I'm actually whole-right. The judicial system proved my version true, and yours false. As Brown tried to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (lol) of Wilson. Luckily, and we all thank god for this, Wilson was highly trained and focused and was able to over-power the savage animal and put him to rest.

    "If the officer used lethal force, that's attacking." in a literal sence, absolutely, you are right. That's like saying the French police attacked the terrorists. In the eyes of the LAW, you are wrong. Legal lethal force is a necessary precaution, not an attack.

    Lol, I'm enjoying this argument.
    Again, I'm not arguing what our current legal standards based on case law are. I'm arguing the conflicts in the legal theory of "self defense."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And you are arguing that if people can save themselves thru lethal force, they legally and morally may not and must allow themselves to be killed or raped.

    Now....does that sound rational at all? Of course, you still refused to answer specifically if the cops and the daughter should indeed have allowed themselves to continue to be attacked until death/raped. Seems like moral quicksand since you cannot stand up and articulate it honestly.
    I can prevent myself from being raped if I were to proactively kill every human on the planet. That's not defense, however. It's still murder.

    At what point to we prioritize prevention of rape v access to due process?
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post

    I can prevent myself from being raped if I were to proactively kill every human on the planet. That's not defense, however. It's still murder.

    At what point to we prioritize prevention of rape v access to due process?
    Barely and only circumspectly a response to the post (reposted below). That is pretty desperate.

    So, still cannot honestly come out and defend your apparently indefensible opinion with a direct answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And you are arguing that if people can save themselves thru lethal force, they legally and morally may not and must allow themselves to be killed or raped.

    Now....does that sound rational at all? Of course, you still refused to answer specifically if the cops and the daughter should indeed have allowed themselves to continue to be attacked until death/raped. Seems like moral quicksand since you cannot stand up and articulate it honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #470
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're half right. The attacker was attempting to deprive life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The people who killed him also did.

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    I'm going to type that again to let it sink it:

    You're arguing that killing people saves lives.

    Neither party has been recognized by the state as having committed a crime. They should both be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

    Just because you see one as "the bad guy" doesn't mean that the justice system shouldn't provide due process. You're not and should not be the justice system. It's called a system for a reason.

    I disagree with the rationale behind "natural rights" even if I think that the Constitutional rights it affords are valuable.

    If the officer used lethal force, that's attacking.
    When you were born, did the government tell you when to enter the world?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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