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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #451
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Do you run into a lot of bad people? I don't, and I live in Brooklyn.

    I don't walk around scared that someone's going to attack me... do you?

    I'm asking this because I can understand people behaving in a fearful way if there's danger always lurking around each and every corner (like Somalia). But, the vast majority of Americans live in extremely violence free environments (comparatively speaking), so the message of "be ready to kill!" seems grossly overblown to me.

    Hell, I grew up in Brooklyn during the height of the crack epidemic. It was absolutely crazy. So from my lens, all of this fear looks extreme to me.
    Well good for you Tet....But who are you to tell others how to live?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm a fan of removing the least amount of eyes. I see "self defense" as the most blinding of the options.
    It's more about whether the attacker or the person being attacked gets to keep his eye.

    I vote for the person being attacked. Hypothetically, that could be me. In the case being discussed here, it was the cops. If someone is going to be blind or dead, let it be the criminal.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  3. #453
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well good for you Tet....But who are you to tell others how to live?
    I don't see where I told anyone how to live. What I did do, was ask a few questions.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I don't see where I told anyone how to live. What I did do, was ask a few questions.
    No I don't walk around scared of other people

    and

    No I don't walk around scared that someone will attack me....

    However, what came after those questions is what I addressed with my own....But you knew that....Now let me say, that you don't have to live in fear to be prudent....People are unpredictable, and preparedness is a hallmark of any intelligent persons thought process....So why would you mock those looking to be prepared?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No I don't walk around scared of other people

    and

    No I don't walk around scared that someone will attack me....

    However, what came after those questions is what I addressed with my own....But you knew that....Now let me say, that you don't have to live in fear to be prudent....People are unpredictable, and preparedness is a hallmark of any intelligent persons thought process....So why would you mock those looking to be prepared?
    I didn't mock anyone. The second half was me giving my personal mindset and my difficulty in understand what seems to me to be folks that are not subject to violence on a regular basis, who appear to overly concerned about being attacked by some phantom boggyman that's always waiting to get them.

    What I was addressing was a mindset. The idea that people should live on the edge because someone is lurking in the shadows to cause us harm is paranoia... especially amongst those that are living in relatively safe environment. Now if you said you live in a high crime area, I'd understand, because I grew up in such an area. But if you live in an area with very little crime, what are you afraid of?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're arguing that the right to your perceived risk to life supersedes justice for someone else's life, and you're calling me selfish.
    I dont say it...it is what our justice system "says," observes and enforces, based on it's interpretation of the Constitution, not yours.

    It's interesting that you think the act of rape or being bludgeoned by a shovel are only 'perceived' risks to life. Or maybe you think women should allow themselves to raped, since it's not generally fatal (I mean hey, sometimes they let you live after, right? Another yes or no question: a cop with a broken arm and leg should allow a man to continue to bludgeon him with a shovel. Is there any chance that you can answer this honestly? You have not yet, not a single time.

    C'mon now...let's see you support your selfless moral conviction and put it into words: Yes, in those three incidents, they should have just allowed the deaths or rape of your daughter.

    And this one's an easy yes or no answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa
    Altho you still do not have the strength of your own convictions to come out and say that you believe it preferable that the police allow themselves to be bludgeoned to death with a shovel and run over by a car.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I didn't mock anyone. The second half was me giving my personal mindset and my difficulty in understand what seems to me to be folks that are not subject to violence on a regular basis, who appear to overly concerned about being attacked by some phantom boggyman that's always waiting to get them.

    What I was addressing was a mindset. The idea that people should live on the edge because someone is lurking in the shadows to cause us harm is paranoia... especially amongst those that are living in relatively safe environment. Now if you said you live in a high crime area, I'd understand, because I grew up in such an area. But if you live in an area with very little crime, what are you afraid of?
    Why does it bother you that I would exercise my rights?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why does it bother you that I would exercise my rights?
    It doesn't.

    Why do you think anything I asked relates to your right to self defense? Nothing in posts has anything to do with that right from what I can see.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    It doesn't.

    Why do you think anything I asked relates to your right to self defense? Nothing in posts has anything to do with that right from what I can see.
    Because you are casting me in this ridiculous characterization of frightened individuals if I choose to carry.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Lol, when someone's life is in danger, there's not going to BE a trial, the officer MUST eliminate the threat to himself or the public. Since there was a giant man trying to murder him, he did the right thing by putting him down. 100% legal, 100% fair. Brown chose to try and end the officer's life, and the correct scenario pllayed out. The justice system proved this to be correct.

    You don't get taken to trial if you are a threat to a police officer or especially the general public. You will be killed.
    Show me where on the constitution I'm missing the asterisk that denies you multiple rights if a police officer subjectively determines you're trying to murder them.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then you do NOT believe in this nations independence....That you said you did was a lie.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--"

    Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

    un•al•ien•a•ble (ɪnˈeɪl yə nə bəl, -ˈeɪ li ə-)

    adj.
    not alienable; not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated.

    unalienable - definition of unalienable by The Free Dictionary

    IOW, The founders believed that we as a people, in fact all of mankind period were endowed by "Natural Rights"....Rights that government can not take away, because they didn't grant them....

    You just destroyed your own entire argument....Thanks.

    *drops mic, and leaves the stage*
    The epistemology of how they came to their ideology and the ideology itself are two different things. I can appreciate and support the Bill of Rights even if I view the rationale behind their crafting to be primitive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It's more about whether the attacker or the person being attacked gets to keep his eye.

    I vote for the person being attacked. Hypothetically, that could be me. In the case being discussed here, it was the cops. If someone is going to be blind or dead, let it be the criminal.
    Both have eyes and both have rights to retain both eyes. I'm not prepared to deny a citizen constitutional rights without a very, very significant justification. Perception of threat isn't necessarily a legitimate reason to deny them -- I'm surprised a libertarian would disagree with this analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I dont say it...it is what our justice system "says," observes and enforces, based on it's interpretation of the Constitution, not yours.

    It's interesting that you think the act of rape or being bludgeoned by a shovel are only 'perceived' risks to life. Or maybe you think women should allow themselves to raped, since it's not generally fatal (I mean hey, sometimes they let you live after, right? Another yes or no question: a cop with a broken arm and leg should allow a man to continue to bludgeon him with a shovel. Is there any chance that you can answer this honestly? You have not yet, not a single time.

    C'mon now...let's see you support your selfless moral conviction and put it into words: Yes, in those three incidents, they should have just allowed the deaths or rape of your daughter.

    And this one's an easy yes or no answer:
    I don't endorse anyone raping or killing anyone, which seems to be your repeated implication.

    I do endorse the least amount of infringement of constitutional rights on as many many people as possible. Legally permitting "self defense" is a conflict to retaining the greatest constitutional rights for the most people.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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