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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #411
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're limited to your perception of whether or not he's bluffing, which will be very biased, but even so, you're:

    A) not defending yourself

    B) not really able to do anything if he had a gun to your wife's head.
    Oh I intend to kill him if possible. And I will do this even in the knowledge that many crimes committed with guns, the gun isn't in condition 1 - no round in chamber. But if I get the chance I'm hitting him in the T box.

    My perception of the risk leads to my decision-making.

    Where you are hung up here is that my perception (very likely serious risk) is probably correct, given the factors described. Earlier you were trying (I think) to suggest that soemeone's perception was wrong, but instead you accidentally aimed at perception as a means of weighing risk.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    If a man has a gun to your wife's head, you already are at his mercy. Your role as negotiator has already passed.
    but if it's still in his pants, and mine is in my hand, there's nothing to negotiate.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh I intend to kill him if possible. And I will do this even in the knowledge that many crimes committed with guns, the gun isn't in condition 1 - no round in chamber. But if I get the chance I'm hitting him in the T box.

    My perception of the risk leads to my decision-making.

    Where you are hung up here is that my perception (very likely serious risk) is probably correct, given the factors described. Earlier you were trying (I think) to suggest that soemeone's perception was wrong, but instead you accidentally aimed at perception as a means of weighing risk.
    I'm not claiming there's no validity to perceptions, but there's greater validity to less subjective views.

    Also, it's still not "self defense" if you're killing a man who's not attacking you. You also don't have much choice as to what you can do if your wife has a gun to her head. You are at a significant tactical disadvantage.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    but if it's still in his pants, and mine is in my hand, there's nothing to negotiate.
    Then you're not in a kill or be killed situation. Him being in possession of a firearm makes him no greater need of being killed than you being in possession of a firearm with intentions to kill him.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Show me your Constitutional right to "self defense."
    10th Amendment.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm not claiming there's no validity to perceptions, but there's greater validity to less subjective views.

    Also, it's still not "self defense" if you're killing a man who's not attacking you. You also don't have much choice as to what you can do if your wife has a gun to her head. You are at a significant tactical disadvantage.

    However, in the case of the subject of this thread, the man WAS attacking, with his car. He was stopped.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    10th Amendment.
    The 10th Amendment is largely usurped by the 14th.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, in the case of the subject of this thread, the man WAS attacking, with his car. He was stopped.
    There have been a half dozen cases discussed in this thread several of which are completely made up, nearly impossible and almost certainly improbable. I was starting one of the latter in this response.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    1. The 10th Amendment is largely usurped by the 14th.

    2. There have been a half dozen cases discussed in this thread several of which are completely made up, nearly impossible and almost certainly improbable. I was starting one of the latter in this response.
    1. You'll have to explain that one....

    2. You should then stick to the topic of the thread.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Then you're not in a kill or be killed situation. Him being in possession of a firearm makes him no greater need of being killed than you being in possession of a firearm with intentions to kill him.
    If he's in my house and going for a gun, then he's in need of being killed.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    1. You'll have to explain that one....

    2. You should then stick to the topic of the thread.
    1) The fourteenth Amendment guarantees all Americans the same federally protected rights. The lack of a stated right to "self defense" suggests that it clearly wasn't the priority to the founders that fair and equal due process was.

    2) I'm trying to be respectful of the other posters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If he's in my house and going for a gun, then he's in need of being killed.
    I disagree with castle doctrines.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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