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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #401
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Fair enough. I was referring to the original 10 in the Bill of Rights, especially the 6th.

    "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

    You're denying the accused all of those rights by killing them in the name of "self defense." "Self defense" is criminal prosecution without access to any of our Constitutional rights.

    As you say, "everyone has a right to life" even the people committing what we believe to be criminal acts.
    So, if there's any doubt as to whether I was actually defending myself, I get a trial by jury. That's fair.

    And, if I don't shoot, then the guy who does gets a trial for my murder.

    Personally, I'd rather be still in the flesh pleading self defense than just a spirit hoping that they hang the (bleep!) who killed me.

    Wouldn't you?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    This is where your naive theories clash with reality. In that video, you are defending the wrong side. Everyone can see what happened-what drives you to defend thugs?
    I'm sorry that you don't believe that everyone is entitled to Constitutional protections and justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Do the people being attacked have a right to life? If so, how do they retain that right?

    (And if they could escape, they would not be getting attacked)
    People being attacked deserve that right as well. They should settle it through our judicial system which is intended to rectify violation of law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So are you going to address this, 3 specific real life situations and have the moral courage to plainly support your belief: that yes, it is better that each suffer the consequences of their attacks rather than use lethal force to survive?
    Adding violence and in justice to a violent encounter isn't decreasing violence or injustice. It's adding to it.

    You may feel the ends justify the means, but that's not justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, if there's any doubt as to whether I was actually defending myself, I get a trial by jury. That's fair.

    And, if I don't shoot, then the guy who does gets a trial for my murder.

    Personally, I'd rather be still in the flesh pleading self defense than just a spirit hoping that they hang the (bleep!) who killed me.

    Wouldn't you?
    Again, "kill or be killed" situations don't really exist much outside of suspense films.

  3. #403
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm sorry that you don't believe that everyone is entitled to Constitutional protections and justice.

    People being attacked deserve that right as well. They should settle it through our judicial system which is intended to rectify violation of law.

    Adding violence and in justice to a violent encounter isn't decreasing violence or injustice. It's adding to it.

    You may feel the ends justify the means, but that's not justice.

    Again, "kill or be killed" situations don't really exist much outside of suspense films.
    I believe that the right to life supersedes justice. I believe it supersedes all the other rights. And the Constitution also protects my right to life, not just your twisted version of 'justice.' Otherwise, I wouldnt have the right, under the law, to self-defense.

    So I would absolutely choose MY life over justice for a malicious person intent on doing me harm.

    And you also have admitted that you would put 'justice' above your daughter's life. Right? Is it possible to get a yes or no answer here or still hiding?

    Altho you still do not have the strength of your own convictions to come out and say that you believe it preferable that the police allow themselves to be bludgeoned to death with a shovel and run over by a car. Why is that?

    And again you deliberately lie....you have been given 3 real life situations here where lethal force was/would be necessary. They are not rare. Or more likely you delude yourself into believing it because otherwise you cannot support your belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I believe that the right to life supersedes justice. I believe it supersedes all the other rights. And the Constitution also protects my right to life, not just your twisted version of 'justice.' Otherwise, I wouldnt have the right, under the law, to self-defense.

    So I would absolutely choose MY life over justice for a malicious person intent on doing me harm.

    And you also have admitted that you would put 'justice' above your daughter's life. Right? Is it possible to get a yes or no answer here or still hiding?

    Altho you still do not have the strength of your own convictions to come out and say that you believe it preferable that the police allow themselves to be bludgeoned to death with a shovel and run over by a car. Why is that?

    And again you deliberately lie....you have been given 3 real life situations here where lethal force was/would be necessary. They are not rare. Or more likely you delude yourself into believing it because otherwise you cannot support your belief.
    You're arguing that the right to your perceived risk to life supersedes justice for someone else's life, and you're calling me selfish.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You're arguing that the right to your perceived risk to life supersedes justice for someone else's life, and you're calling me selfish.
    Is there another way to identify risk other than to perceive it?

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Is there another way to identify risk other than to perceive it?
    There is a difference between the individual's perception of risk and the actual risk. While absolute objectivity may not be possible, the individual involved will almost certainly be more subjective in their perceptions.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    There is a difference between the individual's perception of risk and the actual risk. While absolute objectivity may not be possible, the individual involved will almost certainly be more subjective in their perceptions.
    the individual involved has only their perceptions (all you have, incidentally, is yours).

    So. How else should a person in a potentially threatening situation assess risk if not by perceiving it or not? If someone slams into my house holds a gun to my wifes head and demands my money or her life, should my internal thought process be "Now hold on a second, let's not jump to conclusions. He may just be delivering the pizza."? Of course not. I perceive risk and I will react accordingly.

    Perception is all you've got. If we were unable as a species to make snap judgements regarding perceived risk and act on them, we would not have survived.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the individual involved has only their perceptions (all you have, incidentally, is yours).

    So. How else should a person in a potentially threatening situation assess risk if not by perceiving it or not? If someone slams into my house holds a gun to my wifes head and demands my money or her life, should my internal thought process be "Now hold on a second, let's not jump to conclusions. He may just be delivering the pizza."? Of course not. I perceive risk and I will react accordingly.

    Perception is all you've got. If we were unable as a species to make snap judgements regarding perceived risk and act on them, we would not have survived.
    If a man has a gun to your wife's head, you already are at his mercy. Your role as negotiator has already passed.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    If a man has a gun to your wife's head, you already are at his mercy. Your role as negotiator has already passed.
    "role as negotiator"? We are talking about whether or not one can perceive threats, or has other mechanisms available.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    "role as negotiator"? We are talking about whether or not one can perceive threats, or has other mechanisms available.
    You're limited to your perception of whether or not he's bluffing, which will be very biased, but even so, you're:

    A) not defending yourself

    B) not really able to do anything if he had a gun to your wife's head.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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