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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #351
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Removing the right of self defense for police is just plain ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Simply not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, it is.
    Removing it from civilians is also ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Of course it's selfish. Let's face it, you have a very abnormal usage of words. You have improperly defined 'defense' here in this thread.

    You would choose to take a life-SAVING measure from other people. Of course it's necessary for individuals that are threatened by someone attacking them. To deny that shows a very poor grasp of reality. That you dont like it...we get. As I said, we are grateful that the great majority of Americans and our law makers recognized the right to self-defense, up to and including lethal force.

    And of course it 'feels better' to be alive rather than dead. You avoided answering my question regarding using such lethal force to save your daughter from rape. I guess the one that would 'feel better' in that example is the rapist.

    And I see nothing wrong with primal. Sex is primal. It can also be misused and cause harm. But for the great majority of people, it's very enjoyable. Lots of ****ed up repressed people tried to suppress that for hundreds of years. But it's a basic right also and that certainly didnt work out for them.

    Ooo...speaking of primal...maternal instinct! One of the strongest intincts on the planet. And when necessary, that incredibly primal instinct leads mothers to kill to defend their young. Including humans. Go moms go!
    Killing people is not a defensive act. Maternal instinct doesn't permit you to kill people. Sex doesn't permit you to kill people. Being scared shouldn't permit you to kill someone. They're all primal, but all expected to obey recognition of the rights of others. Killing someone doesn't recognize their rights. It violates their rights. Your right to be scared shouldn't supersede the enumerated rights of others to due process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    ^^This was your answer to this:



    So, how about an honest answer?
    You're accusing me of "fantasy" while you write melodramatic encounters.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  2. #352
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Killing people is not a defensive act. Maternal instinct doesn't permit you to kill people. Sex doesn't permit you to kill people. Being scared shouldn't permit you to kill someone. They're all primal, but all expected to obey recognition of the rights of others. Killing someone doesn't recognize their rights. It violates their rights. Your right to be scared shouldn't supersede the enumerated rights of others to due process.


    You're accusing me of "fantasy" while you write melodramatic encounters.
    Finding yourself in a kill or be killed scenario most certainly justifies killing, whether you're a cop or a civilian.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Finding yourself in a kill or be killed scenario most certainly justifies killing, whether you're a cop or a civilian.
    The term "kill or be killed" is a concept, not a reality.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The term "kill or be killed" is a concept, not a reality.
    When the perp draws a gun, it's reality. When the robber has a gun, it's reality. What are you supposed to do in a situation like that? Just put your head down and repeat, "That's not really a gun. You aren't really going to shoot me."

    Absurd.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Your definition of "selfish" is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    Lethal force is never necessary. It's more convenient, it might feel better, but it's neither necessary nor is it defensive. It's primal and not in keeping with the more forward thinking justice system we should have.
    You're saying a person should try to incapacitate another person who is intent on killing them.

    Basically risking their own life in order to preserve the life of someone who wants to kill them.

    That may be feasible in some situations, but by no means is your average random target of attempted killing going to have the training, skill, and ability to do so.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    When the perp draws a gun, it's reality. When the robber has a gun, it's reality. What are you supposed to do in a situation like that? Just put your head down and repeat, "That's not really a gun. You aren't really going to shoot me."

    Absurd.
    If they've already drawn on you, you're at their mercy regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    You're saying a person should try to incapacitate another person who is intent on killing them.

    Basically risking their own life in order to preserve the life of someone who wants to kill them.

    That may be feasible in some situations, but by no means is your average random target of attempted killing going to have the training, skill, and ability to do so.
    Incapacitating is one method, escaping is another, avoiding is still a better bet.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Killing people is not a defensive act. Maternal instinct doesn't permit you to kill people. Sex doesn't permit you to kill people. Being scared shouldn't permit you to kill someone. They're all primal, but all expected to obey recognition of the rights of others. Killing someone doesn't recognize their rights. It violates their rights. Your right to be scared shouldn't supersede the enumerated rights of others to due process.


    You're accusing me of "fantasy" while you write melodramatic encounters.
    A felon gives up his rights when he tries to kill others. By attempting to run over the police he at that point only had the right to surrender, or be taken out. Period.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    If they've already drawn on you, you're at their mercy regardless.



    Incapacitating is one method, escaping is another, avoiding is still a better bet.
    which is why you don't let them draw on you.
    Escaping? Avoiding? Yes, avoiding beforehand is a good strategy. Once faced with the kill or be killed scenario, there is no escape or avoidance, not unless you can actually dodge bullets. I think that is something that only happens in cartoons.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post


    Incapacitating is one method, escaping is another, avoiding is still a better bet.
    Those options are not always available. Incapacitating a larger stronger opponent? Or after being ambushed? How about if they are faster than you? Or if there's nowhere to escape to?

    And most people of course do try to avoid. It's dishonest to imply cops and other citizens are looking for trouble. OTOH, it's the cops job to *stop* people who are dangers to the public. If they avoid, others may die.

    But I guess that's ok with you. I guess by your silence after my direct question, you feel it's necessary to let your daughter get raped or killed rather than a bystander use lethal force to stop it. I'm assuming that because I think you're too embarrassed or ashamed to answer and confirm it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #360
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    A felon gives up his rights when he tries to kill others. By attempting to run over the police he at that point only had the right to surrender, or be taken out. Period.
    No one is a felon until convicted by the justice system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    which is why you don't let them draw on you.
    Escaping? Avoiding? Yes, avoiding beforehand is a good strategy. Once faced with the kill or be killed scenario, there is no escape or avoidance, not unless you can actually dodge bullets. I think that is something that only happens in cartoons.
    Killing someone before they draw on you isn't defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Those options are not always available. Incapacitating a larger stronger opponent? Or after being ambushed? How about if they are faster than you? Or if there's nowhere to escape to?

    And most people of course do try to avoid. It's dishonest to imply cops and other citizens are looking for trouble. OTOH, it's the cops job to *stop* people who are dangers to the public. If they avoid, others may die.

    But I guess that's ok with you. I guess by your silence after my direct question, you feel it's necessary to let your daughter get raped or killed rather than a bystander use lethal force to stop it. I'm assuming that because I think you're too embarrassed or ashamed to answer and confirm it.
    You're scenario is unrealistic. You're describing a Hollywood movie plot and not reality. Things that happen in suspense films shouldn't be how we decide daily life.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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