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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

  1. #341
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Again, you are welcome to your personal selfish perspective.

    Not every situation allows someone to escape or use non-lethal means to stop an attack. Do you believe that this is always possible? Please tell us.

    I mean, I guess I could stand there and watch a woman about to be raped and call and then wait for the police. If I get involved and cant use lethal force if necessary to stop the attack, then I would be killed (I'm a woman, physical force isnt going to stop him). Not a problem for you if I die, obviously. How would you feel if that was your daughter? Ok to wait until the police arrive and maybe or maybe not catch the attacker after the fact? I mean...hey, I was a witness and I'll help testify against him in court.

    That's ok, right?
    I fall to see how it's selfish to want less citizens killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No that is a completely wrong statement. Killing someone in self defense under our laws is not an offensive act. As I said, you seem to need a dictionary for the word defense.
    Under our law, yes. Our laws are inconsistent in their application of justice to all citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So you are a supporter of the death penalty then?
    It's not a hot button issue for me, but I generally lean against it.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

  2. #342
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    According to our laws yes. According to common sense, killing someone is an offensive act, not defensive.
    I disagree.

    If someone is attacking you, or another person you want to protect, killing them is defensive.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I fall to see how it's selfish to want less citizens killed.
    Because you desire changes in law that take the right of self defense away from the rest of us. You would have us penalized for defending ourselves if lethal force was necessary. That is selfish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #344
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I disagree.

    If someone is attacking you, or another person you want to protect, killing them is defensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Because you desire changes in law that take the right of self defense away from the rest of us. You would have us penalized for defending ourselves if lethal force was necessary. That is selfish.
    Your definition of "selfish" is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    Lethal force is never necessary. It's more convenient, it might feel better, but it's neither necessary nor is it defensive. It's primal and not in keeping with the more forward thinking justice system we should have.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I'm not arguing what the job is, I'm arguing what we should want for a consistent application of justice for all citizens.
    Removing the right of self defense for police is just plain ridiculous.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  6. #346
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Your definition of "selfish" is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    Lethal force is never necessary. It's more convenient, it might feel better, but it's neither necessary nor is it defensive. It's primal and not in keeping with the more forward thinking justice system we should have.
    Simply not true.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Removing the right of self defense for police is just plain ridiculous.
    Yes, it is.
    Removing it from civilians is also ridiculous.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #348
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Your definition of "selfish" is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    Lethal force is never necessary. It's more convenient, it might feel better, but it's neither necessary nor is it defensive. It's primal and not in keeping with the more forward thinking justice system we should have.
    Of course it's selfish. Let's face it, you have a very abnormal usage of words. You have improperly defined 'defense' here in this thread.

    You would choose to take a life-SAVING measure from other people. Of course it's necessary for individuals that are threatened by someone attacking them. To deny that shows a very poor grasp of reality. That you dont like it...we get. As I said, we are grateful that the great majority of Americans and our law makers recognized the right to self-defense, up to and including lethal force.

    And of course it 'feels better' to be alive rather than dead. You avoided answering my question regarding using such lethal force to save your daughter from rape. I guess the one that would 'feel better' in that example is the rapist.

    And I see nothing wrong with primal. Sex is primal. It can also be misused and cause harm. But for the great majority of people, it's very enjoyable. Lots of ****ed up repressed people tried to suppress that for hundreds of years. But it's a basic right also and that certainly didnt work out for them.

    Ooo...speaking of primal...maternal instinct! One of the strongest intincts on the planet. And when necessary, that incredibly primal instinct leads mothers to kill to defend their young. Including humans. Go moms go!
    Last edited by Lursa; 01-08-15 at 01:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #349
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I fall to see how it's selfish to want less citizens killed.
    ^^This was your answer to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa
    I mean, I guess I could stand there and watch a woman about to be raped and call and then wait for the police. If I get involved and cant use lethal force if necessary to stop the attack, then I would be killed (I'm a woman, physical force isnt going to stop him). Not a problem for you if I die, obviously. How would you feel if that was your daughter? Ok to wait until the police arrive and maybe or maybe not catch the attacker after the fact? I mean...hey, I was a witness and I'll help testify against him in court.

    That's ok, right?
    So, how about an honest answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #350
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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    If a police officer is overpowered and has his weapon turned against him there are procedural issues that should be addressed.
    Sometimes you get unlucky. My uncle was one of those exact cops.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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