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Thread: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    You mean an unarmed man that's 4 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier, in a violent fit of rage?

    Lol, your argument is about as strong as a blade of grass.
    Larger men shouldn't have less ability to have a jury of their peers decide their fate than smaller men.

    I have very high expectations for what police should be able to do. Preventing a violent man from accessing a deadly weapon is one of them.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Unarmed men shouldn't be able to disarm police officers. I expect law enforcement to be better trained than that.

    My sentence was a bit vaguely worded. I'm fine with supporting evidence, but feel it should be something a jury should review, rather than a police officer making a unilateral, irreversible decision about.
    That makes little sense to me. The police officer (or any crime victim) must deal with the here and now while the justice system deals with legal theory long after the fact. That is much like saying one should not attempt to stop a crime in progress (requiring a unilateral decision) since a judge and jury are better able to ensure justice.

    The GJ determined that a violent crime took place (Brown attacked the officer) and that the officer on the scene lawfully defended himself using deadly force. The officer had indeed made a unilateral decision and the decision was not deemed unlawful by a GJ. Just as in the Zimmerman/Martin case, the GJ (or jury) must decide who was the initial aggressor and whether the shooting preceded the initial physical attack or was used to stop that attack.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Larger men shouldn't have less ability to have a jury of their peers decide their fate than smaller men.

    I have very high expectations for what police should be able to do. Preventing a violent man from accessing a deadly weapon is one of them.
    Your expectations do not, in no way shape or form, dictate the law. If you go and try and take the police officer's firearm, 9 times out of 10, you will die of a gun shot wound. Police are trained to kill people that are trying to kill them. What if someone took the officer's gun and shot bystanders as well? That's why they are put down.

    Your insane theories that the cop should just wrestle the guy, rather than shoot the attempted killer, are just theories. That's why the grand jury didn't side with you.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That makes little sense to me. The police officer (or any crime victim) must deal with the here and now while the justice system deals with legal theory long after the fact. That is much like saying one should not attempt to stop a crime in progress (requiring a unilateral decision) since a judge and jury are better able to ensure justice.

    The GJ determined that a violent crime took place (Brown attacked the officer) and that the officer on the scene lawfully defended himself using deadly force. The officer had indeed made a unilateral decision and the decision was not deemed unlawful by a GJ. Just as in the Zimmerman/Martin case, the GJ (or jury) must decide who was the initial aggressor and whether the shooting preceded the initial physical attack or was used to stop that attack.
    You aren't arguing with someone that thinks rationally.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why should justice not be based on supporting evidence?
    When evidence goes against a deeply held belief, that evidence tends to be dismissed or ignored.

    In this case, the deeply held belief was that a white cop shooting a black person is never justified, and that the cops just have it out for black people.

    Which is why the Ferguson case and the case of the cigarette seller in NY get lumped together. The facts show that they're two very different cases, but the only thing seen by the racist through the goggles of deeply held belief is white cops and black suspects. Supporting evidence, any facts, are irrelevant in their eyes.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That makes little sense to me. The police officer (or any crime victim) must deal with the here and now while the justice system deals with legal theory long after the fact. That is much like saying one should not attempt to stop a crime in progress (requiring a unilateral decision) since a judge and jury are better able to ensure justice.

    The GJ determined that a violent crime took place (Brown attacked the officer) and that the officer on the scene lawfully defended himself using deadly force. The officer had indeed made a unilateral decision and the decision was not deemed unlawful by a GJ. Just as in the Zimmerman/Martin case, the GJ (or jury) must decide who was the initial aggressor and whether the shooting preceded the initial physical attack or was used to stop that attack.
    I am advocating to reform laws and practices to decrease deadly encounters between police and citizens and citizens and citizens. I am advocating that the sentence of a jury by one's peers be increased and death from encounters be decreased.

    We're giving both citizens and law enforcement liberty to take lives which while currently legal doesn't match up to my view of either ethical or beneficial to society.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I have no idea about Brown's character, I'm speaking specifically about the response to a history of perceived injustice.
    "Perceived" then. You agree that it is "perceived" and not an objectively defined injustice.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    "Perceived" then. You agree that it is "perceived" and not an objectively defined injustice.
    I can't verify every feeling of violation everyone's every had. Some will be legitimate, others less so. I used it as a catchall to include both.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    I am advocating to reform laws and practices to decrease deadly encounters between police and citizens and citizens and citizens. I am advocating that the sentence of a jury by one's peers be increased and death from encounters be decreased.

    We're giving both citizens and law enforcement liberty to take lives which while currently legal doesn't match up to my view of either ethical or beneficial to society.
    Reform them to what exactly? Reform practices to what exactly?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Man tries to run over Pa. police, shot dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Reform them to what exactly? Reform practices to what exactly?
    If a police officer is overpowered and has his weapon turned against him there are procedural issues that should be addressed.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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