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United Airlines, Orbitz sue Skiplagged over layover price loophole

JANFU

JANFU

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United Airlines, Orbitz sue Skiplagged over layover price loophole - Business - CBC News

A large U.S. airline and one of the world's biggest online travel agencies are suing an entrepreneur from New York City for developing a web system that can help flyers save money by taking advantage of a loophole in the pricing of flights with layovers.

Aktarer Zaman invented Skiplagged.com, a website that lets users find cheaper flight tickets.

The website's trick is that it combs ticket prices and finds flight routes with layovers that stop in certain cities that end up being cheaper than simply directly flying to that city.

If a traveller wants to fly from New York City to Atlanta, for example, a direct flight would cost a certain amount of money. However, because of the way airlines price their tickets, a flight from New York to Miami that includes a layover in Atlanta might cost less than the New York-to-Atlanta trip.

Under the system, that flyer could book the flight to Miami knowing that it passes through Atlanta, and simply get off the plane there and not complete the last leg — while saving money in the process.
 
I don't see that either company has a real cause of action against the guy for outsmarting them and competing with them.

I know people who like to buy the cheapest ticket possible for the flight that they think will most likely be overbooked so they can agree to be bumped in exchange for upgrades or future flights.
 
If the airlines are offering the prices I don't see how they can complain.
 
It doesn't seem that plaintiffs have a good case. There were no laws broken, no deception, and no real losses for the plaintiffs.
 
If airlines didn't have such a ludicrous pricing system this wouldn't be a problem.
 
Why wouldn't it be easier simply to close the pricing loophole?
 
Agreed with others, I am unsure how this lawsuit can win given how the plaintiffs characterize "intentionally and maliciously interferes" with their business. Seems to me the airlines caused their own issues here, and Orbitz just jumped on the bandwagon.
 
Deuce said:
If airlines didn't have such a ludicrous pricing system this wouldn't be a problem.
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It is capitalism. The larger the demand to fly to a city, the higher the cost to fly to that city.
 
Redress said:
It is capitalism. The larger the demand to fly to a city, the higher the cost to fly to that city.
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Except that is not the issue. If all or most seats on a flight would be even closely priced the system would not be so ridiculous, but on any give flight to any give city the disparity in pricing is ridiculous.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Agreed with others, I am unsure how this lawsuit can win given how the plaintiffs characterize "intentionally and maliciously interferes" with their business. Seems to me the airlines caused their own issues here, and Orbitz just jumped on the bandwagon.
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You are not understanding the lawsuit nor the issues. What they are stating is the practice violates the airlines rules agreed upon when a person purchases a ticket, and which Orbitz and other travel agencies agree to uphold. Here are the rules: http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf

Prohibited Practices:

1) Fares apply for travel only between the points for which they are published. Tickets may not be purchased and used at fare(s) from an initial departure point on the Ticket which is before the Passenger’s actual point of origin of travel, or to a more distant point(s) than the Passenger’s actual destination being traveled even when the purchase and use of such Tickets would produce a lower fare. This practice is known as “Hidden Cities Ticketing” or “Point Beyond Ticketing” and is prohibited by UA
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In other words, the lawsuit alleges that it helps people violate the rules they agree to when purchasing a ticket. I tend to suspect that UA and Orbitz will win based on that.
 
prometeus said:
Except that is not the issue. If all or most seats on a flight would be even closely priced the system would not be so ridiculous, but on any give flight to any give city the disparity in pricing is ridiculous.
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There is no obligation to closely price them. Price of tickets follow the laws of supply and demand.
 
JANFU said:
United Airlines, Orbitz sue Skiplagged over layover price loophole - Business - CBC News

A large U.S. airline and one of the world's biggest online travel agencies are suing an entrepreneur from New York City for developing a web system that can help flyers save money by taking advantage of a loophole in the pricing of flights with layovers.

Aktarer Zaman invented Skiplagged.com, a website that lets users find cheaper flight tickets.

The website's trick is that it combs ticket prices and finds flight routes with layovers that stop in certain cities that end up being cheaper than simply directly flying to that city.

If a traveller wants to fly from New York City to Atlanta, for example, a direct flight would cost a certain amount of money. However, because of the way airlines price their tickets, a flight from New York to Miami that includes a layover in Atlanta might cost less than the New York-to-Atlanta trip.

Under the system, that flyer could book the flight to Miami knowing that it passes through Atlanta, and simply get off the plane there and not complete the last leg — while saving money in the process.
Click to expand...



Oh dear, oh dear....

Now corporations have learned to play victim.
 
Redress said:
There is no obligation to closely price them.
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While that is true and I make no claim otherwise, it hardly is "fair" or a good practice. Clearly when their people beat them at their own game they are sore loosers.

Price of tickets follow the laws of supply and demand.
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Actually they do not and that is the problem.
 
prometeus said:
Except that is not the issue. If all or most seats on a flight would be even closely priced the system would not be so ridiculous, but on any give flight to any give city the disparity in pricing is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

There is a very good reason for that, the last seats bought on a flight are usually the most expensive, they are usually last minute business trips, etc. Also, If all the seats cost the same, and someone bought a ticket now when fuel is cheap, for a flight in 6 months and 6 months later, if fuel was much higher, both seats would cost the airline the same. The advent of revenue management systems on the airlines has been a lifesaver. If you want cheap seats, buy early or look for sales. Trust me, the loads on airlines are extremely high these days, I can only fly when there are empty seats....unless I actually buy a ticket...LOL
 
prometeus said:
While that is true and I make no claim otherwise, it hardly is "fair" or a good practice. Clearly when their people beat them at their own game they are sore loosers.
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A "good practice" for a business is one that makes money and is legal. No one has "beat them at their own game" as they already have rules in place to handle these situations.

Actually they do not and that is the problem.
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So you are saying that ticket prices to cities are not determined by the demand to travel to a city and the supply of tickets to that city? You base that on what?
 
Redress said:
A "good practice" for a business is one that makes money and is legal. No one has "beat them at their own game" as they already have rules in place to handle these situations.



So you are saying that ticket prices to cities are not determined by the demand to travel to a city and the supply of tickets to that city? You base that on what?
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Airlines have pretty good software to detect people doing this, of course you can't check baggage in for your flight. And the majority of the time on a one stop flight you are traveling through a hub, and changing planes. So it is easy to see when someone doesn't show up for their connecting flight, sometimes they airline will cancel the return flight if someone doesn't continue on to their ticketed destination.
 
Redress said:
You are not understanding the lawsuit nor the issues. What they are stating is the practice violates the airlines rules agreed upon when a person purchases a ticket, and which Orbitz and other travel agencies agree to uphold. Here are the rules: http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf



In other words, the lawsuit alleges that it helps people violate the rules they agree to when purchasing a ticket. I tend to suspect that UA and Orbitz will win based on that.
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Then the airlines need to go after the fliers who broke the contract. How is Skiplagged obligated to enforce a contract it never agreed to?
 
BrewerBob said:
Then the airlines need to go after the fliers who broke the contract. How is Skiplagged obligated to enforce a contract it never agreed to?
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They are not obligated to enforce the contract. However, a service to do something known to be a violation of rules is grounds for a lawsuit.
 
Redress said:
A "good practice" for a business is one that makes money and is legal.
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Indeed yet for some reason the airlines always cry, so maybe their practices are not that good after all. A practice based on gimmicks if not outright deception is hardly good even if legal.

No one has "beat them at their own game" as they already have rules in place to handle these situations.
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Yet for some crazy reason if you walk up to a copunter of any airline abnd book a flight no one shoves several pages in front of you to consider before buying the ticket.

So you are saying that ticket prices to cities are not determined by the demand to travel to a city and the supply of tickets to that city?
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Yes that is what I am saying. If it was the so then the price would not vary so much.

You base that on what?
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The great disparity in the prices of tickets on the same flights.
 
prometeus said:
Indeed yet for some reason the airlines always cry, so maybe their practices are not that good after all. A practice based on gimmicks if not outright deception is hardly good even if legal.
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I do not think you can call it pricing on a gimmick to charge the price the market will bear. We call that capitalism, and it is a good thing.

Yet for some crazy reason if you walk up to a copunter of any airline abnd book a flight no one shoves several pages in front of you to consider before buying the ticket.
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You can in fact get the rules at any ticket counter, or from the airlines website, or any of a number of other sources. If you do not read the rules you are agreeing to, the problem is with you.

Yes that is what I am saying. If it was the so then the price would not vary so much.
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Care to show evidence to back that up?

The great disparity in the prices of tickets on the same flights.
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That actually is not evidence. That is in fact barely coherent. Disparity of ticket prices compared to what? What are you claiming determines those ticket prices?
 
Redress said:
You are not understanding the lawsuit nor the issues. What they are stating is the practice violates the airlines rules agreed upon when a person purchases a ticket, and which Orbitz and other travel agencies agree to uphold. Here are the rules: http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf



In other words, the lawsuit alleges that it helps people violate the rules they agree to when purchasing a ticket. I tend to suspect that UA and Orbitz will win based on that.
Click to expand...

Interesting point. That contract provision was not mentioned in the OP's article. However, it appears that website being sued only provides information and it is the individual passenger purchasing the ticket that violates the terms, so suing a website just for providing information seems unlikely to be successful.
 
Redress said:
I do not think you can call it pricing on a gimmick to charge the price the market will bear.
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You do not seem to have the slightest clue on air fare pricing.

We call that capitalism, and it is a good thing.
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No one has made any claims against capitalism.

You can in fact get the rules at any ticket counter, or from the airlines website, or any of a number of other sources. If you do not read the rules you are agreeing to, the problem is with you.
Click to expand...
Again you seem oblivious on how contractual agreements work.
 
Redress said:
It is capitalism. The larger the demand to fly to a city, the higher the cost to fly to that city.
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Their pricing system resembles voodoo more than it does capitalism.
 
Deuce said:
Their pricing system resembles voodoo more than it does capitalism.
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Maybe its voodoo economics.

I have read that airlines run with a slim profit margin so its not surprising that they are fighting the dissemination of this information that exploits a loophole. When I get pissed off at an airline I try to remind myself that we get crummy service because most of us shop for plane tix by looking for the lowest price only.
 
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