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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Do you charge the mother or do you charge the son?

If she was alive I would charge the mother.

Creating such an accident waiting to happen is beyond stupid.

Do not carry guns if you are not trained to know what to do with them.
 
ahh sorry I saw someone mention a 1911 and thought that is what the gun was. I haven't see anything describing the gun.
They really need to stop calling it a "safety" anyway because of rule #1 "always treat a firearm as if it's loaded"...we never treat a firearm as if it's "safe".

When I see well meaning people talk about not chambering a round or only carrying a gun with a manual safety...see I just did it right there...I empathize and somewhat agree with what they're saying, but it's frustrating to me that a gun owner would ever regard their gun as "safe" because they did those things.
 
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They really need to stop calling it a "safety" anyway because of rule #1 "always treat a firearm as if it's loaded"...we never treat a firearm as if it's "safe".

It think it was a mistake to ever call "firing pin\other internal safeties" safeties, as they serve a different purpose.

A traditional manual safety would have likely prevented this accident, since the kid could pull on the trigger all day and nothing would happen unless the safety was released.

These new "safeties" would only come into play if the gun was dropped or struck. Pulling the trigger under any circumstance fires the gun, as in this case.

Both can be carried safely, but the new style demands a higher level of care. I think for "professional" shooters, who are actively preparing combat as part of their job\life, the internal safeties make sense, but for most self defense users, a manual safety should be encouraged.

Instead, my impression is that new gun owners are steered towards the lastest and greatest, and manual safeties are regarded as dangerous time wasters that will get you killed, when it is often the opposite.
 
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Both can be carried safely, but the new style demands a higher level of care. I think for "professional" shooters, who are actively preparing combat as part of their job\life, the internal safeties make sense, but for most self defense users, a manual safety should be encouraged.
I have to respectfully disagree.

Any person carrying a gun is preparing to face combat. Cops, soldiers, security, moms....all the same. The sudden lack of fine motor skills in a spontaneously high-stress situation resulting in fumbling or completely failing to release the safety is a greater danger than having internal safeties.
 
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These new "safeties" would only come into play if the gun was dropped or struck.
That's not an issue with DAO or DASA triggers. An uncocked gun is drop-proof.

I faced similar criticism while deployed with my machinegun. Unlike the M4, the M249 is carried uncocked. You can literally drive over it with a bulldozer and it will not fire. It's physically impossible.

Just because you have a round in the chamber doesn't mean the weapon is cocked. A chambered 1911 with the hammer down is just fine, and a lot of people choose to carry that way and practice bringing the hammer back as part of their single-handed draw.
 
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Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Not sure, but if a firearm isn't reported as stolen, missing or sold, isn't that illegal, can't an owner be taken to task?

Depends on the state. However it's in the owner's best interests to report it stolen or sold so they arent accused of a crime if one's committed. And to get their expensive stolen property (gun) back.
 
I have to respectfully disagree.

Any person carrying a gun is preparing to face combat. Cops, soldiers, security, moms....all the same. The sudden lack of fine motor skills in a spontaneously high-stress situation resulting in fumbling or completely failing to release the safety is a greater danger than having internal safeties.

I dont know if that's such an issue re: safeties. It's just one more thing you practice so it's smooth and part of drawing and aiming. 1911's all have thumb safeties (and grip safeties which I do avoid). And they were originally combat weapons.

I'm not recommending thumb safeties....if I didnt feel they were more prudent for my methods of carry and other circumstances, I wouldnt have them.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Not sure, but if a firearm isn't reported as stolen, missing or sold, isn't that illegal, can't an owner be taken to task?
Depending on the state, you only have to report theft, not sale.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart


If she was alive I would charge the mother.

Creating such an accident waiting to happen is beyond stupid.

Do not carry guns if you are not trained to know what to do with them.

The scary thing is the kid could just have easily killed anyone else randomly in the store.

I really hope this is a wakeup call for women. And men...I have read of a couple that put them in their diaper bags on the forums and know a woman who does. Another accident like this could start a stupid call for 'more gun laws!'

Not having kids, this never occured to me but I will remember it and discuss with other friends to remind.
 
my kid has won a bunch of tournaments with a Glock. Me too. we both are Master class GSSF shooters. but I don't carry one. I carry a Sig 9mm that is a single action. I carry it with the chamber empty because I constantly practice the IDF draw technique. I also carry a 38 SW performance center revolver. that has no safety on it but requires a 12 pound trigger pull. you can pound on the hammer with a mallet and it won't discharge.

I also really like SW M&P handguns which are like Glocks. I have a 40 as a car gun but it stays in a locked safe in the car unless I need it. If I carry a SW MP its one of the shields or compacts with a manual safety

I know you like Glocks TD and that' fine I just personally think they are some of the worst guns made of all time. Everyday I become more and more a revolver man.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

The scary thing is the kid could just have easily killed anyone else randomly in the store.

I really hope this is a wakeup call for women. And men...I have read of a couple that put them in their diaper bags on the forums and know a woman who does. Another accident like this could start a stupid call for 'more gun laws!'

Not having kids, this never occured to me but I will remember it and discuss with other friends to remind.

Carry I firearm you must carry it correctly. I open carry around my Second Cousins all the time they are between 1-5 years old. I always keep my gun in my rentation holster on my hip or my shoulder holster.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

The scary thing is the kid could just have easily killed anyone else randomly in the store.

I really hope this is a wakeup call for women. And men...I have read of a couple that put them in their diaper bags on the forums and know a woman who does. Another accident like this could start a stupid call for 'more gun laws!'

Not having kids, this never occured to me but I will remember it and discuss with other friends to remind.
Imagine putting it in the diaper bag....and then maybe you drop the child off with a teen sitter, and the diaper bag, and leave for your event.

You're now facing 10-25 years in prison for making a firearm accessible to prohibited persons (the teen babysitter).

In a lot of ways and for a lot of reasons, it's better to keep it on you.
 
I have to respectfully disagree.

Any person carrying a gun is preparing to face combat. Cops, soldiers, security, moms....all the same. The sudden lack of fine motor skills in a spontaneously high-stress situation resulting in fumbling or completely failing to release the safety is a greater danger than having internal safeties.

I'm pro-2A all day, but this is this is when gun enthusiasm begins to sound like a religion.

Surely you agree that the level of preparation is wildly different between a soldier or police officer and most moms. And it's clear that many people who carry don't show the same respect for it's dangers as you demonstrate. I'm interested in mitigating this.

A manual safety would have prevented this specific tragedy. I expect it has happened, but I've never heard of anyone getting killed while they struggled with their manual safety. Do you have any examples you could share?

It's anecdotal, but I've I have heard of many, many people killing\injuring people in incidents that would not be possible with a manual safety, including police officers.

I'm not saying they should be required of all users, but they gap in safety should be made plain, particularly to new\amateur users.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

The scary thing is the kid could just have easily killed anyone else randomly in the store.

I really hope this is a wakeup call for women. And men...I have read of a couple that put them in their diaper bags on the forums and know a woman who does. Another accident like this could start a stupid call for 'more gun laws!'

Not having kids, this never occured to me but I will remember it and discuss with other friends to remind.

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

The absolute lowest limit for gun ownership should be 21 years old and having successfully completed a gun safety course which would be a demanding thing. Much harder than a driving test.

Them it make s it easy to get the guns off the streets because you can arrest anybody with one and the half life for a gangster's gun is not all that long. They keep throwing them away and generally not looking after them.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Sometimes I wonder if we just can't cut and paste threads from previous incidents of accidental shootings. The posts are almost all identical. Authors are going to see their old posts and can just click on a Like to it.
You will see the comparison to accidents with cars and you will see the question why someone needs a gun for protection in little Hayden, Idaho in a Wal Mart. Both valid too.

Many have questioned her intelligence and from I read locally she was a good person with above intelligence.

The sad thing is that in the next few months of 2015 we will read another article in the papers about a child shooting and killing a sibling/playmate after getting parent's gun. We will also read about someone backing their car/pickup in the driveway and running over their 3 yr old. Can't help it, just going to happen.

Accidents do serve a purpose in reminding everyone else to act safe for a short while. Kind of like went you pass a policeman pulling over another motorist, we drive the speed limit for the next 10 miles.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Sometimes I wonder if we just can't cut and paste threads from previous incidents of accidental shootings. The posts are almost all identical. Authors are going to see their old posts and can just click on a Like to it.
You will see the comparison to accidents with cars and you will see the question why someone needs a gun for protection in little Hayden, Idaho in a Wal Mart. Both valid too.

Many have questioned her intelligence and from I read locally she was a good person with above intelligence.

The sad thing is that in the next few months of 2015 we will read another article in the papers about a child shooting and killing a sibling/playmate after getting parent's gun. We will also read about someone backing their car/pickup in the driveway and running over their 3 yr old. Can't help it, just going to happen.

Accidents do serve a purpose in reminding everyone else to act safe for a short while. Kind of like went you pass a policeman pulling over another motorist, we drive the speed limit for the next 10 miles.

I do not question her overall intelligence, I do think she did not have a great respect for the power she had and how to integrate that power with notoriously nosey toddlers that are like heat sinking missiles towards things forbidden to them.

Motherhood can be stressful enough. 4 kids (including a toddler) at Walmart? Good grief.

How many more gun deaths caused by inappropriate access to firearms do we need to here about? People need to respect their weapons .
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

The absolute lowest limit for gun ownership should be 21 years old and having successfully completed a gun safety course which would be a demanding thing. Much harder than a driving test.

Them it make s it easy to get the guns off the streets because you can arrest anybody with one and the half life for a gangster's gun is not all that long. They keep throwing them away and generally not looking after them.

In the US, probable cause prevents cops from searching people without a reason. If the gangbangers conceal their weapons...which they do....they cant. Alot of gangbangers are underage and could be picked up now just as you said...except as I said....it's not legal.

And I think the age, at least to carry, it 21 in many states. Again, you didnt really propose anything new. Or that would work.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

Without our gun culture we'd probably still be British, too. Or, at least, our judges would be wearing wigs. ;)
 
Terrible tragedy and very preventable.

2 year olds are naturally curious and the weapon should have been secured a bit better
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

The absolute lowest limit for gun ownership should be 21 years old and having successfully completed a gun safety course which would be a demanding thing. Much harder than a driving test.

Them it make s it easy to get the guns off the streets because you can arrest anybody with one and the half life for a gangster's gun is not all that long. They keep throwing them away and generally not looking after them.

that's silly. and I remember Britain after WWI-lots of Brits got rid of their guns. They thought that would prevent another WW. It didn't. and with the Nazis threatening an invasion, the gunless Brits were afraid and asked US to help them out. My grandfather did-he sent several weapons to britain including a Springfield Rifle and a Mauser 98 he had taken as a war trophy in France Circa 1918. The Nazis never invaded but had they tried, Britain would have been much better prepared due to AMERICAN gun owners donating THOUSANDS OF VALUABLE weapons to our British friends
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

The absolute lowest limit for gun ownership should be 21 years old and having successfully completed a gun safety course which would be a demanding thing. Much harder than a driving test.

Them it make s it easy to get the guns off the streets because you can arrest anybody with one and the half life for a gangster's gun is not all that long. They keep throwing them away and generally not looking after them.

what streets are you going to that guns are just laying there waiting to be taken off?

If I ever find that street I'll be in heaven I'll tell you....
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Hey, I'm British. I look at American gun culture and think you are all mad and seem to want to live in the wild west.

The absolute lowest limit for gun ownership should be 21 years old and having successfully completed a gun safety course which would be a demanding thing. Much harder than a driving test.

Them it make s it easy to get the guns off the streets because you can arrest anybody with one and the half life for a gangster's gun is not all that long. They keep throwing them away and generally not looking after them.

you can have your opinion on our gun culture, but it's that, an opinion, and not a well educated one at that.

in the united states the age of adulthood is 18. so by limiting all gun ownership to 21 you're depriving adults of fundamental civil rights. in addition in rural areas (of which we have some contigious rural/wilderness areas in our country larger then the entire landmass of your country) children often need to hunt or carry firearms to protect livestock or agricultural crops.

and operating a firearm is much simpler then a car, and requires far less skill. so why should the test be harder?
 
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