• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Yes. Otherwise what's the difference between them snatching my purse with a gun in it as opposed to not having one in it?

However if I was wrong, I apologize.

If someone grabbed her purse, that could feasibly have been a bonanza for a thief, and could possible resulted in a gun making it's way to the street.

Most women I have ever seen shopping usually keep their purses with them, even when accompanied by children.
 
Read it again!!

They are referring to carrying the gun in a vehicle.

If it is in plain view, you are OK - if it is concealed in the vehicle it must be broken down.

The only restriction for CCW is that you cannot be under the influence of alcohol.

Show me the part where it states you can carry a loaded firearm concealed, into a store or place of business.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If someone grabbed her purse, that could feasibly have been a bonanza for a thief, and could possible resulted in a gun making it's way to the street.

Most women I have ever seen shopping usually keep their purses with them, even when accompanied by children.

No different than a gun kept in your car or your home, also frequently robbed. We should not be held responsible for the criminal acts of others.

What about if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime (happened)? Or kills someone with it? Am I to be held responsible? No.
 
Show me the part where it states you can carry a loaded firearm concealed, into a store or place of business.

Why should it specify? Our WA St law doesnt specify where you can carry, only where you cant. Basically federal or other govt properties.
 
Show me the part where it states you can carry a loaded firearm concealed, into a store or place of business.

criminal laws make things ILLEGAL not legal.

if something is not illegal then it is legal by definition. so you show me the Idaho Statute making it ILLEGAL to carry in Walmart.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

No different than a gun kept in your car or your home, also frequently robbed. We should not be held responsible for the criminal acts of others.

What about if someone steals my car and uses it in a crime (happened)? Or kills someone with it? Am I to be held responsible? No.

If you leave your keys in your unlocked car and a child steals it for a joy ride crashes it and is killed, are you responsible?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If you leave your keys in your unlocked car and a child steals it for a joy ride crashes it and is killed, are you responsible?

Nope. And I'm not responsible for anyone they kill either.

And I'm not responsible if they climb my fence and drown in my pool or my (friendly) dogs harm them.

The law may not agree but I am not responsible for other people's kids bad behavior.
 
Another reason to never own a glock.

my kid has won a bunch of tournaments with a Glock. Me too. we both are Master class GSSF shooters. but I don't carry one. I carry a Sig 9mm that is a single action. I carry it with the chamber empty because I constantly practice the IDF draw technique. I also carry a 38 SW performance center revolver. that has no safety on it but requires a 12 pound trigger pull. you can pound on the hammer with a mallet and it won't discharge.

I also really like SW M&P handguns which are like Glocks. I have a 40 as a car gun but it stays in a locked safe in the car unless I need it. If I carry a SW MP its one of the shields or compacts with a manual safety
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Not my point at all.

You obviously are clueless about handguns, readiness, and common sense.

Says the guy who thinks a gun without a bullet in the chamber is a paperweight.

If it takes you so long to chamber a round that your gun is rendered useless, perhaps you are the one who needs to get some basic training with firearms.
 
Last edited:
Except the assumption was that it was "unattended".. whats unattended? If she has her her head turned and is an arms length away from the purse.. is that unattended?

And you know what.. you could be carrying your pistol on your hip, and slip and fall and have it not retain... and now its on the floor for someone to pick up. Guess that would be your fault right? Irresponsible you? Please.

Crap happens. Accidents do happen. You cannot prepare for every eventuality. It just that people have a much higher standard with firearms than they do with just about anything else. Which is the irony.

People have a higher standard for a device intended to instantly end a human life? You don't say.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

what happens if I'm caught? I immediately leave, and if the FedEx people try to hold me there they're committing unlawful imprisonment which is a felony and I can use reasonable force to escape...
I know the law very well.

If you have actually done this - carried a gun onto premises clearly marked "no guns allowed" - well, that's pretty rude and obnoxious of you, isn't it?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

No surprise. Commonplace with gun culture.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If you have actually done this - carried a gun onto premises clearly marked "no guns allowed" - well, that's pretty rude and obnoxious of you, isn't it?

Why? It may seem so but if you extend it to other things that a business owner might object to, it seems more understandable.

If I express political opinions that a business owner doesnt like, he can ask me to leave. In general, I dont do so in public :)

I dont allow a business owner an opinion on anything else in my purse...not my cell phone, my mini-Bible (ok I dont carry one but I could), my tampons, or anything else. Why is my concealed firearm any of his business?

And before you say it....politics and opinions have caused more aggression and death than guns.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Why? It may seem so but if you extend it to other things that a business owner might object to, it seems more understandable.

If I express political opinions that a business owner doesnt like, he can ask me to leave. In general, I dont do so in public :)

I dont allow a business owner an opinion on anything else in my purse...not my cell phone, my mini-Bible (ok I dont carry one but I could), my tampons, or anything else. Why is my concealed firearm any of his business?

And before you say it....politics and opinions have caused more aggression and death than guns.

The tampon can't kill anyone no matter how much you want it to.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Why? It may seem so but if you extend it to other things that a business owner might object to, it seems more understandable.

If I express political opinions that a business owner doesnt like, he can ask me to leave. In general, I dont do so in public :)

I dont allow a business owner an opinion on anything else in my purse...not my cell phone, my mini-Bible (ok I dont carry one but I could), my tampons, or anything else. Why is my concealed firearm any of his business?

And before you say it....politics and opinions have caused more aggression and death than guns.

When I see a sign saying "no shirts, no shoes, no service" - I respect the views of the shopowner.

Similarly with "no food no drink" signs - I make sure to finish before entering.

I respect you, Lursa; and so I am surprised that you would bring a gun onto a premise that doesn't want them there.
 
My point was that folks get all upset with a single gun incident, but ignore large deaths in other situations.

The disparity is quite relevant, as anti-gun folks pounce all over one incident and cry and flail their arms to utilize the incident.

My point was also that lack of due diligence in any situation can have disasterous results due to a number of reasons, which is also correct.

I guarantee that if a parent allowed a toddler to be in control wheel and someone died, I would be equally as pissed off if a parent allowed their toddler to access a gun and someone died. YMMV
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Perhaps because I have kids and have been around toddlers and have treated many a toddler that got injured. it happens in a blink of an eye.. and you don't often see it coming.

This lady didn't put a gun in the kids hand. She had it in a concealed carry purse.. which means that it was not open for the kid to even see it. He had to 1. open the concealed carry section..2 be able to get the gun out or in a position to shoot.. 3. Operate the trigger and have the gun in the direction of his mother..

that's a pretty extraordinary circumstance...

The problem here is that the assumption is that the kid got a gun.. and that equates to irresponsibility and stupidity. And I think that's a faulty assumption.

And if you have been around toddlers, you KNOW it is their job to be nosey and get into stuff. If my gun was in my purse (CCW purse or not), that purse would be crossbody - not left for anyone to get into. Hell, if you really know toddlers, he probably knew something worth exploring was in the purse.

Yes, I think a parent having a loaded weapon in a purse and a child being able to access it is CLEARLY irresponsible.

I think she showed a lack of respect for the weapon.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If you have actually done this - carried a gun onto premises clearly marked "no guns allowed" - well, that's pretty rude and obnoxious of you, isn't it?

Well it's pretty rude and obnoxiou of FedEx to not tell me beforehand that guns are prohibited before I drove 50 miles out there to pick up my furniture. They claim they ban even on vehicles on the property well I don't got anywhere to put it once I'm 50 miles away from my house in Tacoma. Next time they can put that in the confirmation email

And if they move their warehouse to somewhere with a lower crime rate I might be more willing to follow it to. Tacoma in Fife which the warehouse it's on the border of, is consistently the number one city in Washington state for murders rapes and carjackings. No if they move their warehouse to I don't know Bellevue or medina or something like that I have no problem going there was no gun.

And finally paddy, there will come a point at some point in your life, where you'll realize that you need to look out for your own interests above everyone else's, sometimes one must use the way the system is structured to their advantage. Router of noxious would've been to go into the warehouse openly carrying and I'm getting in a huge argument with the manager. Being passive and minding my own business has served me well.
 
Last edited:
I guarantee that if a parent allowed a toddler to be in control wheel and someone died, I would be equally as pissed off if a parent allowed their toddler to access a gun and someone died. YMMV

However it's unlikely such an incident would've made the news outside that persons town
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

The tampon can't kill anyone no matter how much you want it to.

tell that to the victims of toxic shock attributed to RELY tampons
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If you leave your keys in your unlocked car and a child steals it for a joy ride crashes it and is killed, are you responsible?

If it is a two year old toddler, hell yeah!!!!!

Not only would you be responsible, you would have CPS crawling up your butt trying to find out how your 2 year old escaped from your supervision long enough to find an unlocked car with keys in the ignition, is there long enough to figure out the ignition and emergency brake and reach the gas pedal.:lamo
 
Try googling it.

I could Google anything, but most people don't go out of their way looking for new stories. So the national media taking up a story is a very powerful influence
 
Did you not just explain that "child proof" caps are often ineffective? Now you seem to assert that a mere zipper should have been reasonably expected to prevent access to the gun. That is, indeed, inherently irresponsible.

The point being is that it was not JUST a zipper.. It was not a "mere zipper".. the gun was out of sight in a hidden pocket, she obviously wasn't far from the purse. etc.

Point being is that child proof caps are often ineffective... so does that mean that according to you.. ANY child that gets their hands on prescription medication.. has stupid irresponsible parents?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

If it is a two year old toddler, hell yeah!!!!!

Not only would you be responsible, you would have CPS crawling up your butt trying to find out how your 2 year old escaped from your supervision long enough to find an unlocked car with keys in the ignition, is there long enough to figure out the ignition and emergency brake and reach the gas pedal.:lamo

CPS would then place the boys in a group home in Olympia with predatory older boys will rape them..... Happy ending to the story all around

Oh wait that's off topic just thinking aloud
 
Back
Top Bottom