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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Well see this is where the detective part of me is frustrated at the news media. I would've asked two questions one) what type of gun, and two) was there anything defective with it. I never said no gun will discharge when dropped, I said modern firearms will not.

I agree- the odds of an "I dropped the weapon, and it just fired" incident with a modern pistol is very, very remote- perhaps even near mechanically impossible.
 
I agree- the odds of an "I dropped the weapon, and it just fired" incident with a modern pistol is very, very remote- perhaps even near mechanically impossible.

I agree. I have a couple competition pistols that don't have firing pin blocks but they aren't carry pistols.
 
I agree- the odds of an "I dropped the weapon, and it just fired" incident with a modern pistol is very, very remote- perhaps even near mechanically impossible.

Well yeah, and if a firearm did go off when dropped and it had a drop safety, then in armor certified by the manufacture should be able to find something wrong with it. But the news never asks that. If you went to your living room and flipped on the light switch and no lights came on, and then an electrician trace the whole system and says there's nothing wrong with it, you wouldn't believe him there's obviously something wrong with that because the lights aren't coming on. Same with guns. If a gun with a drop safety fires when dropped than any mechanical inspection should reveal a problem with it. But what I'm saying is when I've talked with police officers who investigated these types of things when they have their department armor look at the gun after I checked and evidence they never find anything wrong with it.

I mean there was a case where a guy drop it done and it went off near my house, Took out a leg get a piece of furniture at the cost plus world market at the Silverdale mall, but he was carrying a replica of an 1870s era Derringer, The replicas made for collectors they come with a manual that says do not carry it because they are they do have that problem they will go off if dropped.
 
Me thinks lack of training and education in the operation of what you own has more to do with this than NRA koolaid.

If she was a new owner, someone, maybe where she purchased it, could have offered a training session with her, so this might not have happened, but, she did leave a child near the firearm, so it was basically stupidity. IMO.
When you buy a new or used gun from a gun store in Florida, they give you a yellow pamphlet outlining the rules as far as minors and guns.
Yet, these things can and do happen.
 
I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.

NRA has koolaid? Man that just makes me thirsty. Its hot down here in Florida. Just who is selling Koolaid?
 
NRA has koolaid? Man that just makes me thirsty. Its hot down here in Florida. Just who is selling Koolaid?

it appears to have been a drive by post-he didn't return to defend that silly unwarranted attack on the NRA
 
The problem here is not the NRA. The problem is Darwinism. You know, that rule of thumb that states that dumb asses aren't meant long for this world.

Maybe this is God's way of teaching us to keep our pieces out of the reach of 2 year old's.

Yeah, it's really sad. I'm just grateful that the 2 year old didn't get shot.
 
Honestly.. I don't really see so far that the women was being irresponsible. She had a weapon.. in the purse, in a special pocket designed for it. I am sorry, but the idea that a two year old.. is going to find the hidden pocket, unzip it.. be able to handle the weapon.. and fire it, AND hit his mother and kill her?

There is a lot of things that had to go wrong at multiple steps for that to happen. So far.. I don't think it was being irresponsible.. I think it was simply bad luck. Crap happens... even when you prepare. There is a risk to life. There is risk to owning a car and driving it on the street. Every accident on the street "could have been prevented".. if everyone simply didn't drive.

there is a risk to owning firearms.. heck there is a risk in NOT owning a firearm.

The fact is that there are thousands upon thousands of weapons in the homes, purses, glove compartments, and pockets of americans. And probably the majority of those weapons are NOT as well secured as the woman having a firearm in a concealed carry purse with a special dedicated pocket for it. And yet.... tragedies like this make the news... because they are exceedingly rare... tremendously rare... more rare than falling in the bathtub and dying.

Just thought I would interject a little perspective.
 
The problem here is not the NRA. The problem is Darwinism. You know, that rule of thumb that states that dumb asses aren't meant long for this world.

Maybe this is God's way of teaching us to keep our pieces out of the reach of 2 year old's.

Yeah, it's really sad. I'm just grateful that the 2 year old didn't get shot.
Would this be anything other than a local news story if she had just had a car accident?
 
I agree. I have a couple competition pistols that don't have firing pin blocks but they aren't carry pistols.

I think modifications were also the problem of the accidental discharges with Remington rifles. Evidently, the trigger mechanism was easy to adjust. Home gunsmiths would then accidently adjust it to where the trigger pull was extremely light, or almost non existant.

Then, rather than keeping the weapon seperate and not carrying it chambered, they carried for everyday hunting with bad results.

But what I'm saying is when I've talked with police officers who investigated these types of things when they have their department armor look at the gun after I checked and evidence they never find anything wrong with it.
A friend of mine, who ironically was a polcie officer, claimed that forcefully shoving a magazine with a chambered round into his service weapon caused it to fire, and put a hole in the ceiling of the squad room. The Department and the manufacturer examined the weapon and could not find anything wrong with it.

The true cause was: Bored Homo Sapiens performing a functions check on a weapon, while thinking of other things... .
 
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Honestly.. I don't really see so far that the women was being irresponsible. She had a weapon.. in the purse, in a special pocket designed for it. I am sorry, but the idea that a two year old.. is going to find the hidden pocket, unzip it.. be able to handle the weapon.. and fire it, AND hit his mother and kill her?
Of all the millions of gun owners, this specific series of circomstanses lined up just right one time.

It's a statistical inevitability.
 
Of course you WOULD come in to dance in the blood of a dead woman to further your own ideological hatred. The fact that you know nothing about the woman or her belief system but have no problem assigning your own personal bias and hatred to her speaks volumes of you.

Right . It is much more respectful to write her off as an imbecile and go about your business.
 
I wonder if she had a CCP on a whim or whether she was a serious gun owner.

Perhaps she was just stuck on stupid.

She did not have control of her weapon and she left access to her toddler - it seems that she broke every rule out there.

So tragic for all involved.
 
Really really sad. Say in an alternate universe, where this lady was more responsible..or perhaps didn't have the gun, she would be alive
It's always someone else, until it isn't. :/

I wouldn't say that this woman was generally irresponsible. She was simply irresponsible at that moment and THAT is why I wanted to discuss firearm safety basics in this thread. Too often we get comfortable with the things we do every day and when we get too casual about our safety (and, as a result, the safety of those around us) accidents can turn tragic.

From what I've read this woman was using a new rig but also the type of rig she'd be familiar with under different circumstances. Her comfort with a purse overrode her comfort with daily carry and the results were catastrophic.

This isn't about bashing people who carry or even people who make mistakes. It's simply a stark reminder of why you need to keep your head in the game the whole time you're playing.
 
Right . It is much more respectful to write her off as an imbecile and go about your business.
She did a moronic thing. You know less than **** about her and simply applied your bias and hatred of guns, gun owners, and the NRA to the situation. Go ahead...pull the other one. As if you give a **** about her.
 
Honestly.. I don't really see so far that the women was being irresponsible. She had a weapon.. in the purse, in a special pocket designed for it. I am sorry, but the idea that a two year old.. is going to find the hidden pocket, unzip it.. be able to handle the weapon.. and fire it, AND hit his mother and kill her?

There is a lot of things that had to go wrong at multiple steps for that to happen. So far.. I don't think it was being irresponsible.. I think it was simply bad luck. Crap happens... even when you prepare. There is a risk to life. There is risk to owning a car and driving it on the street. Every accident on the street "could have been prevented".. if everyone simply didn't drive.

there is a risk to owning firearms.. heck there is a risk in NOT owning a firearm.

The fact is that there are thousands upon thousands of weapons in the homes, purses, glove compartments, and pockets of americans. And probably the majority of those weapons are NOT as well secured as the woman having a firearm in a concealed carry purse with a special dedicated pocket for it. And yet.... tragedies like this make the news... because they are exceedingly rare... tremendously rare... more rare than falling in the bathtub and dying.

Just thought I would interject a little perspective.

Good points. But the fact remains that the 2 year old DID get to the gun. Just a tad MORE responsibility might have prevented that. Hindsite's 20/20.
 
She did a moronic thing. You know less than **** about her and simply applied your bias and hatred of guns, gun owners, and the NRA to the situation. Go ahead...pull the other one. As if you give a **** about her.

True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
 
I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.

We don't know the lady's personal circumstances. There could be very valid reasons why she felt the need to carry. It could be - and it sadly is in so many cases - that people, and I think ladies in particular, don't purchase a gun and learn to use it until after a real or perceived threat has occurred. That in IMHO is the wrong time or the worst time to suddenly buy and carry a gun. It's rushed and the need to have the gun obscures the need to become competent in owning and carrying it.

Responsible adults take the time to learn and practice and train and practice and think about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Owning a gun is a never ending learning process or it should be. Owning and carrying is not the end of the what if questions. In fact it should usher in a thousand more what ifs.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

I hope the 2 year old does not remember this later in life and I also hope everybody in his family tells him she died a different way.
 
Honestly.. I don't really see so far that the women was being irresponsible. She had a weapon.. in the purse, in a special pocket designed for it. I am sorry, but the idea that a two year old.. is going to find the hidden pocket, unzip it.. be able to handle the weapon.. and fire it, AND hit his mother and kill her?

There is a lot of things that had to go wrong at multiple steps for that to happen. So far.. I don't think it was being irresponsible.. I think it was simply bad luck. Crap happens... even when you prepare. There is a risk to life. There is risk to owning a car and driving it on the street. Every accident on the street "could have been prevented".. if everyone simply didn't drive.

there is a risk to owning firearms.. heck there is a risk in NOT owning a firearm.

The fact is that there are thousands upon thousands of weapons in the homes, purses, glove compartments, and pockets of americans. And probably the majority of those weapons are NOT as well secured as the woman having a firearm in a concealed carry purse with a special dedicated pocket for it. And yet.... tragedies like this make the news... because they are exceedingly rare... tremendously rare... more rare than falling in the bathtub and dying.

Just thought I would interject a little perspective.

Good writeup. She was experienced with guns; she wasn't dumb; the gun was in a compartment specifically for concealed weapons, so for those who think she should have had it in a holster - obviously the expectation was that women would carry guns in their purses.

I'm in favor of more gun control laws and more gun safety measures, as many of you know. But about the only thing though that could have helped in this case was trigger locks, I'm thinking. Or one of those id things that only lets the owner shoot it. Those would have probably stopped this. Or if WalMart banned people bringing guns in.

As LutherF says "It's simply a stark reminder of why you need to keep your head in the game the whole time you're playing.".

That's true for guns, for cars, and for other potentially deadly activities.

People with kids may want to rethink and recheck their gun security. Or not own guns; that's the best way to avoid a gun accident. Trigger locks may be a good idea when kids are around (if they work - I freely admit I don't keep up with the latest technology).

In the meantime, my condolences to the family. Yes, this accident was avoidable - but aren't most accidents avoidable? that's why they are accidents.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

This is not an accident. It is a result of idiocy. The idiocy is the act of carrying a gun about in a supermarket. The discharge of the weapon is an accident waiting to happen.

Americans need to understand that this should be regarded as an unlawful killing. The responsibility was the stupid mothers so no action is required but it could have been anybody at the store that caught the bullet.

If you have a gun then that gun is the one which is more likely to kill you than all the rest of them out there.

Do you charge the mother or do you charge the son?
 
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?

Well, if you ask me, with Walmart's history of crime, I definitely carry when I go there. But that's just me.
 
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
Perhaps she was just a mother who carefully considered her decision to get a firearm, went through a class, got a CCW permit, and made a really stupid decision on how to carry it.

You dont 'wonder' where she got that idea. You believe she got that idea from a special message directly to her from the NRA. Why? Because you are biased and full of hatred towards the NRA.
 
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