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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

ReverendHellh0und said:
VPC talking points....
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AJiveMan said:
Well, it was basically not following firearm safety rules,

I was taught not to have a round in the chamber in semi auto pistols and rifles, and to leave one cylinder empty on a revolver where the hammer is in the rest position to prevent accidental discharge,

might be a good reason for people who want to own a firearm to attend classes to learn more than they think they might know.
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Not having a round in the chamber of a carry gun relegates it's status to rock or paperweight.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

SMTA said:
Not having a round in the chamber of a carry gun relegates it's status to rock or paperweight.
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I realize that, but, it is safer.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

SMTA said:
Not having a round in the chamber of a carry gun relegates it's status to rock or paperweight.
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Problem is, in the event that I need a gun, I'd hate to have a rock or a paperweight.


But yes, if it's in a purse, near your kid...... wait, it should never be in your purse near your kid.


Stupid hurts. Sometimes stupid kills.
 
iguanaman said:
I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.
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Me thinks lack of training and education in the operation of what you own has more to do with this than NRA koolaid.

If she was a new owner, someone, maybe where she purchased it, could have offered a training session with her, so this might not have happened, but, she did leave a child near the firearm, so it was basically stupidity. IMO.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

AJiveMan said:
I realize that, but, it is safer.
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I disagree - any quality loaded weapon carried and handled intelligently is safe.

I carry a Kahr PM45 daily - it is a striker fired weapon with no manual safety.

When I first purchased it 5 years ago, I was concerned about it's safety, as it had no manual safety.

I read an article which advised to completely unload the weapon and carry it around the house and see how many times the gun 'went off', which was zero.

I did exactly that, and it was exactly and perfectly safe!

Loaded weapons do not bother me in the least, as I have complete confidence in my ability to be safe, and the gun's design.

The old adage of carrying with an empty chamber was rooted in ignorance and fear.

It also stems from the old habit of carrying a SA revolver with the hammer over an empty chamber - this was due to the firing pin being externally mounted on the hammer - a blow to the hammer would fire a live round due to the fact that the firing pin rested on the round's primer.

The new transfer bar technology for SA revolvers required the trigger to actually be pulled back in order to allow the firing pin to access the live round.

Proper gun handling will circumvent the concerns of having a live round in the chamber.

Also, trying to rack a slide to chamber under stress in order to fire an auto when needed would be much more dangerous in adding additional steps prior to firing.

I am not beating you up here at all, just conveying information.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Higgins86 said:
good thing she had it with her, I hear Wal-Mart is a dangerous p0lace to be nowadays.
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No location can be considered safe these days if one is unprepared - there are criminals and fools everywhere.

Being prepared 100% of the time is intelligent - being a blind fool will get you killed every time.

I am always prepared and safe.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

I feel so bad for the toddler. I hope there is a father or a very loving person to take care of that baby now and they never make it feel like they are to blame in any way.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

AJiveMan said:
Well, it was basically not following firearm safety rules,

I was taught not to have a round in the chamber in semi auto pistols and rifles, or on any pistol or rifle for that matter, and to leave one cylinder empty on a revolver where the hammer is in the rest position to prevent accidental discharge,

might be a good reason for people who want to own a firearm to attend classes to learn more than they think they might know.
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I agree. People who don't have someone to teach them the basics of firearm safety should take a 'good' class.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

This is a very sad and unfortunate situation. I am all for 2nd Amendment rights, but more so for all the responsibilities that come with those rights, not to mention a common sense approach when it comes to carrying a deadly weapon.
Kids and guns....hello. Most people can't control their kids in the best of circumstances, so what makes them think that a loaded weapon should be anywhere near them?
I also don't understand what world we live in that makes us want to carry a weapon at all times, willing to shoot at anyone we perceive as threatening. I don't even know whom to fear more, a potential perpetrator or some gun lover with a nervous trigger finger. We can imagine being a hero, but are we?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

May not have had a safety. Many don't. Its not unusual.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Lovebug said:
This is a very sad and unfortunate situation. I am all for 2nd Amendment rights, but more so for all the responsibilities that come with those rights, not to mention a common sense approach when it comes to carrying a deadly weapon.
Kids and guns....hello. Most people can't control their kids in the best of circumstances, so what makes them think that a loaded weapon should be anywhere near them?
I also don't understand what world we live in that makes us want to carry a weapon at all times, willing to shoot at anyone we perceive as threatening. I don't even know whom to fear more, a potential perpetrator or some gun lover with a nervous trigger finger. We can imagine being a hero, but are we?
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The premise of self defense is a basic human emotion.

I don't have any delusions of being a hero - I simply want my family to be safe and left alone.

I have no intent to shoot indiscriminately, but only to protect self, wife and kids.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Lovebug said:
This is a very sad and unfortunate situation. I am all for 2nd Amendment rights, but more so for all the responsibilities that come with those rights, not to mention a common sense approach when it comes to carrying a deadly weapon.
Kids and guns....hello. Most people can't control their kids in the best of circumstances, so what makes them think that a loaded weapon should be anywhere near them?
I also don't understand what world we live in that makes us want to carry a weapon at all times, willing to shoot at anyone we perceive as threatening. I don't even know whom to fear more, a potential perpetrator or some gun lover with a nervous trigger finger. We can imagine being a hero, but are we?
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when does this happen?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

What I want to know is that if the shooter will be charged with involuntary manslaughter?
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Oh My...Terrible story...Tragic....So let's gather the anti gun nuts, and take away everyone's gun.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

colourfastt said:
What I want to know is that if the shooter will be charged with involuntary manslaughter?
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The child was approached by LE, and complied with orders....The moral of the story? Even a two year old knows enough to "Drop the weapon!, get on the ground!" :devil:
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

AJiveMan said:
It's reported she had a CC permit, if that's the case, I wonder why she just didn't have it in a holster, wearing it on the hip-waist, and covered with a coat or sweater. I say this because I've seen a few people in stores doing it that way, it's obvious that a person is carrying though. Such a shame this happened.
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because like so many that have "mulled" through the required classes, she was complacent. and her fears were obviously misplaced..
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

IMO horrible accident, horrible mom
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

CRUE CAB said:
May not have had a safety. Many don't. Its not unusual.
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there are many that are produced without the safety lever, instead the "safety" is built into the trigger asm., requiring that someone pull the trigger to allow the pin to release.. its like adding about 1/8" extra pull on the trigger.
my last S&W .40 has this and i can understand how people have trouble with it..
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Mechanical safeties are an academic discussion. Guns don't have them anymore because they do little to improve safety and take time to take off under stress when you need your gun.

As far as guns firing when dropped, all modern handguns have internal safeties that keep the firing pin away from the cartridge until the trigger is pulled, modern handguns, like post 1965, should not just go off from being dropped
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"should not" is a nice thought, but not that long ago a gun was dropped in a movie theater and went off.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

WhyteRash said:
there are many that are produced without the safety lever, instead the "safety" is built into the trigger asm., requiring that someone pull the trigger to allow the pin to release.. its like adding about 1/8" extra pull on the trigger.
my last S&W .40 has this and i can understand how people have trouble with it..
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The best safety. Is between the ears.
 
Lutherf said:
It depends on what you're comfortable with. If you're carrying a Glock and can't keep your hands off the damned thing it's probably better to carry condition 3. Otherwise most pistols are perfectly safe to carry condition 1. WRT the kids....don't have the damned pistol where they can get their hands on it! If you're carrying somewhere that's not on your body then don't put the package down.

I'm assuming that this woman had the gun in her purse and the purse in the shopping cart. If so that's wrong on a several levels but at the top of the list is that she wasn't in control of the weapon.
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According to the family, the purse had a pocket specifically for concealed weapons. The mom was also very experienced with guns.
The inside story of how an Idaho toddler shot his mom at Wal-Mart - The Washington Post


It's a terrible situation for the family, especially the child who shot her.

Even responsible gun owners (which it sounds like she was) screw up. So sad.
 
paddymcdougall said:
"should not" is a nice thought, but not that long ago a gun was dropped in a movie theater and went off.
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I would like to see the news article. I see that because there's a lot of old guns out there that don't have those firing pin safeties. But the other thing, is that when I've talked with police officers who've investigated things like this, they'll have someone claiming that the gun just went off or they dropped it, and when the cops look at the gun it's mechanically in perfect working order.. People often have their pride really hurt by accidental discharges and in many cases they're willing to forget that they had actually been playing with the trigger
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

AJiveMan said:
Well, it was basically not following firearm safety rules,

I was taught not to have a round in the chamber in semi auto pistols and rifles, or on any pistol or rifle for that matter, and to leave one cylinder empty on a revolver where the hammer is in the rest position to prevent accidental discharge,
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I was as well. The few occasions that I decide to load my semi automatic pistol (I usually keep the magazine seperate from the pistol), I still do not chamber a round out of habit.

That aside, I think both of those rules were written in earlier generations when accidental discharges with pistols were far more common. Modern pistols have improved designs incuding a mechanism in revolvers that make it impossible to fire the weapon via the hammer with out pulling the trigger.

Likewise, most, or nearly all, semi automatic pistols have new designs where the hammer is no moved to the "ready position" (I dont know the technical terms) when the weapon is charged. Instead, they are double action.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I would like to see the news article. I see that because there's a lot of old guns out there that don't have those firing pin safeties. But the other thing, is that when I've talked with police officers who've investigated things like this, they'll have someone claiming that the gun just went off or they dropped it, and when the cops look at the gun it's mechanically in perfect working order.. People often have their pride really hurt by accidental discharges and in many cases they're willing to forget that they had actually been playing with the trigger
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Here you go
Man drops gun in movie theater, shooting self in buttocks - U.S. News
 
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