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Thread: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

  1. #261
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I dont believe I'm incorrect. I didnt say they didnt have the right. They have the right to ask you to leave. It's not illegal to carry a gun into someone else's home here either. And if they find out and ask you to leave, you have to or you are trespassing. But the gun is not illegal in their home. And it's the same for anything. If someone asks you to leave their home or store, you have to (unless it's discriminatory).

    It depends on state law but if it's not illegal in the state you cant just make your own laws on your property.
    well that's a tricky one, because in Washington trespass is when you illegally enter anothers property, or fail to leave when asked to do so. if someone puts up a sign, it's arguably trespassing because you know you'll be asked to leave if caught. the bigger issue, is most police agencies would rather not arrest people for simple trespass. Washington does not have a criminal trespass or trespass with a weapon charge. so any trespass by nature of carrying a gun is simple trespass. so usually if caught you can leave the premises (and therefore are no longer trespassing) or the police may be called and they'll make you sign a form saying if you're caught there again you'll be arrested.

    now some states like Texas, have a law saying that if the business puts up a specific sign described in the law, then a CHL holder is committing trespass by going in anyway. in Texas the sign is required to be in 1inch block letters and have specific wording, if the sign is not exactly as described it carries no force of law.

    my rule is this, if I walk up to a business and there's no sign immediately at eye level visible at the door I go in anyway.

    most malls have a little sign where guns are prohibited in a big list of rules in little print, I don't seek those out. big sign eye level or I didn't see any sign at all.
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  2. #262
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    well that's a tricky one, because in Washington trespass is when you illegally enter anothers property, or fail to leave when asked to do so. if someone puts up a sign, it's arguably trespassing because you know you'll be asked to leave if caught. the bigger issue, is most police agencies would rather not arrest people for simple trespass. Washington does not have a criminal trespass or trespass with a weapon charge. so any trespass by nature of carrying a gun is simple trespass. so usually if caught you can leave the premises (and therefore are no longer trespassing) or the police may be called and they'll make you sign a form saying if you're caught there again you'll be arrested.

    now some states like Texas, have a law saying that if the business puts up a specific sign described in the law, then a CHL holder is committing trespass by going in anyway. in Texas the sign is required to be in 1inch block letters and have specific wording, if the sign is not exactly as described it carries no force of law.

    my rule is this, if I walk up to a business and there's no sign immediately at eye level visible at the door I go in anyway.

    most malls have a little sign where guns are prohibited in a big list of rules in little print, I don't seek those out. big sign eye level or I didn't see any sign at all.
    Yes, and it's not against the law. That trespass law applies to many things, not just guns. Trespassing is against the law, not carrying the gun. Doesnt matter in this state if the business is posted or not. The signs carry no weight of law (here).

    And all states are different, as stated. It's a crap shoot and BS IMO but it's the gun owner's responsibility to know and understand.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #263
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    And hell...they were at Wal-Mart. Lots of folks around to peruse her unattended purse.

    I am at a loss for the folks dismissing this case as a simple accident.I have to wonder if they have ever been around toddlers.

    I would think most gun owners would scream at the top of their lungs "we are NOT like that" "don't lump us in with people who as irresponsible as she was"
    Perhaps because I have kids and have been around toddlers and have treated many a toddler that got injured. it happens in a blink of an eye.. and you don't often see it coming.

    This lady didn't put a gun in the kids hand. She had it in a concealed carry purse.. which means that it was not open for the kid to even see it. He had to 1. open the concealed carry section..2 be able to get the gun out or in a position to shoot.. 3. Operate the trigger and have the gun in the direction of his mother..

    that's a pretty extraordinary circumstance...

    The problem here is that the assumption is that the kid got a gun.. and that equates to irresponsibility and stupidity. And I think that's a faulty assumption.

  4. #264
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And they do have the right to ask you to leave. But it's not illegal to carry it into the store. it's illegal not to leave when asked.

    (Again, this varies by state. Some states have specific ordinances that must be posted on the business that does make such carry illegal. But we were discussing it being illegal in states where it is legal to carry in general)
    Lursa: I'm not a lawyer but I would hate to walk in to a store or other business (manufacturing company; etc.) with a CC while seeing a conspicuous sign at the entrance explicitly stating "no firearms permitted on the premises" and then try to figure out if the firearm was illegal or my action of carrying it in to the premises was; that's one can of worms I wouldn't care to open.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I never EVER let my toddler have access to the steering wheel EVER.

    And if you intentionally allowed your toddler access to the steering wheel and there was an accident, you should be criminally charged - especially of there was bodily harm. And I would think CPS would be on speed dial.

    sure you did.. you just never realized it. Really.. are you going to state that you never put your kid in a car seat.. until you were in the drivers seat yourself??

    Or did you put your kid in the car seat, then walk to the drivers side and get in? If you did.. then you gave that toddler access to the steering wheel. Because all they had to do was get out of the car seat and get to the steering wheel before you got in.

    By the way..I treated a toddler that was injured in this way.

  6. #266
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Lursa: I'm not a lawyer but I would hate to walk in to a store or other business (manufacturing company; etc.) with a CC while seeing a conspicuous sign at the entrance explicitly stating "no firearms permitted on the premises" and then try to figure out if the firearm was illegal or my action of carrying it in to the premises was; that's one can of worms I wouldn't care to open.
    as long as it stays concealed it's not an issue. I picked up a furniture order for a relative at the FedEx Warehouse in Fife, WA and they have no gun signs everywhere, one sign even says, "No firearms allowed on FedEx property, or vehicles on FedEx property" well whatever, I carried anyway picking up the order. no one was any the wiser.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  7. #267
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Lursa: I'm not a lawyer but I would hate to walk in to a store or other business (manufacturing company; etc.) with a CC while seeing a conspicuous sign at the entrance explicitly stating "no firearms permitted on the premises" and then try to figure out if the firearm was illegal or my action of carrying it in to the premises was; that's one can of worms I wouldn't care to open.
    You are expected to know the laws in your state. You will be held 100% for that.

    EMNo and I have discussed how the law is applied in our state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #268
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    as long as it stays concealed it's not an issue. I picked up a furniture order for a relative at the FedEx Warehouse in Fife, WA and they have no gun signs everywhere, one sign even says, "No firearms allowed on FedEx property, or vehicles on FedEx property" well whatever, I carried anyway picking up the order. no one was any the wiser.
    A lot of people will also get away with driving home tonight while being intoxicated, but I would hate to be them if they're caught.

  9. #269
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    1) When even a two year old can grab your purse, extract and fire your gun.

    2) Just about anything else cannot blow a hole in your head from a distance when operated by a two year old.

    Trying to make this into something which was not easily preventable is not going to work.
    Some two year olds can operate "child proof caps" on medicine... some can manage to get onto counters..


    Trying to make out that a child getting a weapon means that the owner was inherently irresponsible is not going to work.

  10. #270
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    Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You are expected to know the laws in your state. You will be held 100% for that.

    EMNo and I have discussed how the law is applied in our state.
    True.

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