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Thread: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

  1. #201
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.
    There were 35,000 automotive deaths last year, with 93% being attributed to driver error.

    There is no great push for driver education in the US in spite of this.

    There are alternative costs with every right or freedom that we have, and everything that we do.

    Some folks educate themselves about risks, some do not, some do not care, and some just get lazy.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As a matter of fact it appears that this lady was violating Idaho law. She was carrying a loaded concealed weapon.

    Learn more here: In Idaho gun tragedy, does it matter that mother took precautions? - CSMonitor.com

    Nothing that this lady did stopped this from happening.
    I read the article and that cannot be right. I'd have to go look at ID carry laws. But there's no point in carrying an unloaded weapon and ID is a gun-friendly state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #203
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    This is just a horribly tragic story and the reason it's so tragic is because it was so preventable.

    I'm the VP of the local chapter of an organization that provides professional education for those in my career field. Every month our board meets to discuss the topics that we'll be covering in our seminars and inevitably we have a lot of interest in new topics and exciting topics and flashy topics. Hey, those topics put asses in the seats and that's part of our job. But there is another part of our job and that's to make sure that those who are member of our organization or attend our events are performing at the highest professional standards they can and in order to achieve that standard we also need to constantly reinforce the basics.

    I'm a tax and accounting guy. I can run through your financial data faster than you can run a comb through your hair and can not only spot an anomaly from a mile away but can usually tell you why it's out of whack half an hour before I hit my billing minimum. That being said, I'm also human and when I get too used to doing the same thing the same way all the time that's when I get dangerous. I suspect that's what happened in Hayden and why some 2 year old no longer has a mommy.

    Folks, if you're going to carry a firearm then you need to pay attention to the basics. It's how you protect others and yourself from tragedy caused by complacency. I'd like to use this thread to clarify and discuss the basics of daily carry and I'd like to hear, primarily, from those who do carry every day. I'd also like those who don't carry to ask questions so that we can address your concerns.

    For starters, when you carry you need to be in control of your weapon. That means you don't hand it to someone else or leave it on the toilet tank. You don't just dump it into your purse or your pocket. You keep that weapon in such a manner that you KNOW it's safe, secure and under your immediate control. The specifics of how you do that are often dependent on exactly what kind of weapon you're carrying but one of the basics is your holster. USE ONE!!

    Simply stuffing a pistol in your waistband or purse might look cool in the movies but it's stupid. Even a decent level I holster will provide more security than your waistband. As a minimum it should be enough to cover the trigger guard so that nothing can get stuck in there accidentally. It should also be made for the firearm you're using it with so that everything fits and stays secure.

    One other thing, once your weapon is in its holster and under your control DON'T **** WITH IT! There is no need to play pocket pool with your pistol. The pistol doesn't care and isn't going to feel neglected. Leave it alone unless you absolutely need to use it. If you have to take it off for some reason (entering an area where firearms are prohibited, for example) then take it off pistol and holster together. This is a good reason for those who carry IWB to use clip on holsters.

    This is just one suggestion. Please feel free to add more.
    So true. Don't try "Mexican carry" or placing a small handgun in a pocket with the trigger unprotected.

    A while back a guy doing this set off his gun as he was sitting down in a large auditorium near us. The bullet missed hitting anyone, thankfully.
    “Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.”
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  4. #204
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As a matter of fact it appears that this lady was violating Idaho law. She was carrying a loaded concealed weapon.

    Learn more here: In Idaho gun tragedy, does it matter that mother took precautions? - CSMonitor.com

    Nothing that this lady did stopped this from happening.
    From your linked article:
    Veronica’s father-in-law, Terry Rutledge, told The Washington Post that he took issue with the immediate reaction by some to blame Rutledge.
    He might want to blame the maker of the purse.

    After reviewing video of the shooting, police quickly established that it was an accident. But despite the precautions, somehow the toddler managed to extricate the gun and fire a chambered round. It’s against the law in Idaho to carry a loaded concealed gun.
    So, basically, she was not a responsible gun owner. Glad we got that cleared up now. +1

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As a matter of fact it appears that this lady was violating Idaho law. She was carrying a loaded concealed weapon.

    Learn more here: In Idaho gun tragedy, does it matter that mother took precautions? - CSMonitor.com

    Nothing that this lady did stopped this from happening.
    She was not violating the state laws - the article is wrong.

    Carrying an unloaded concealed weapon is stupid and pointless.

    Gun & Weapon Laws - Idaho.gov
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  6. #206
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They said that about the little boy who accidentally shot his classmate over in Bremerton. I dont know if they lied intentionally or not (media). They said he dropped the backpack with the semi-auto in it on the desk and it went off. That's a lie, it has to be. I dont know if they were just ignorant or were trying to protect the boy. I saw the gun on the news....modern semi-auto. It didnt go off accidentally when dropped. He has his hand in that backpack, fiddling with the gun.
    well I dunno how familiar you are with Kitsap County Politics, I grew up in Kitsap Co. there was a whole backstory there the media didn't cover.

    The gun in that case belonged to Douglas Bauer (whom I know personally, he drives the local city bus, I used to take the city bus to school). in 1994 or 95 I can't remember exactly, Douglas Bauer was driving home off of the SR-16 Freeway and a road rage driver followed him home to his house off of Mullenix Road, Bauer was assaulted in his driveway and pulled a gun from his car and shot his attacker.

    The Sheriff's office arrested him, and I think the outgoing Prosecutor, C Danny Clem, didn't file charges, but the new Prosectuor, Russell Hauge, took it as a project, charged bauer with murder, and took it to trial, the jury found Bauer not guilty and ordered Hauge to repay Bauers legal blls.

    well when the shooting happened in Bremerton, Russell Hauge was still serving as prosecutor, and he saw a chance to get revenge on Bauer. so he charged Bauer with assault and struck a plea deal with the kid in exchange for testimony. I went to the county courthouse and read the documents filed by the prosecutor, there's the first statement, called "information" where the prosecutor lays out the case, well attached to Information was the reports of two Bremerton Police Officers, now pay close attention, both officers stated that they didn't touch the gun, but that the BPD Captain, Wolfe is his name, took the gun out of the backpack and cleared it, but there's no report from Wolfe in the filings. and the newspaper doesn't know to ask the question, if the gun went off in the backpack from being dropped, was their anything wrong with it? did an HK armorer look at it? and when Wolfe "cleared it" was a live round expelled? because if the gun was cramped in a backpack, it would probably stovepipe and no new round would be in it.

    see the newspaper dropped the ball on its reporting.
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I read the article and that cannot be right. I'd have to go look at ID carry laws. But there's no point in carrying an unloaded weapon and ID is a gun-friendly state.
    You are right.

    Gun & Weapon Laws - Idaho.gov
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  8. #208
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    There are purses with built in holsters. Regardless of how it was secured in her purse, part of being a responsible gun owner is positive control of your weapon at all times. The purse (with a gun in it) should not have been accessible to the child. Period.
    Except that's simply not a reality. if its accessible to her.. its accessible to others. Its the nature of the beast in concealed carry. If you can get to it.. so can others.

    Its unreasonable to hold a person responsible for seeing and preventing EVERY eventuality. Period.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
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    It appears to me that she didn't learn what she really needed to know from that class.

    If we had a time machine we could run her through that class again.
    *sigh* shopping in Walmart with 4 kids. Not too much to keep you preoccupied.

    It was probably just an instant where she stepped away So very sad.

    We all commit these errors in life....and often dodge the bullet (pun intended). But not always.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #210
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    She was not violating the state laws - the article is wrong.

    Carrying an unloaded concealed weapon is stupid and pointless.

    Gun & Weapon Laws - Idaho.gov
    Incorrect:

    CONCEALED WEAPONS

    Idaho law requires a license to carry a concealed weapon. Concealed weapon licenses can be obtained from your County Sheriff for $20, and is valid for five years. Renewal is $15.

    You may carry a firearm in your vehicle inside the city limits or confines of a city, as long as it is in plain view, loaded or unloaded. But if you are going to conceal it, the firearm must be disassembled or unloaded.
    Gun & Weapon Laws - Idaho.gov

    From your own link:
    http://www.idaho.gov/laws_rules/firearm.html
    You may carry a firearm in your vehicle inside the city limits or confines of a city, as long as it is in plain view, loaded or unloaded. But if you are going to conceal it, the firearm must be disassembled or unloaded.

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