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Thread: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Make your analogy more appropriate to the situation.

    Would you EVER leave your toddler at or near the steering wheel?

    If you say yes, I would say you didn't just make a mistake, you showed absolute disregard for the safety of others.

    I have to wonder, if the toddler shot an innocent bystander - it is clear the toddler would not be charged - what charges would the mother face?
    I doubt there would have been any charges, the NRA would see to that. That is also part of the problem. If it was clear that when a minor gets your gun anything he does with it is your responsibility perhaps gun owners would be more careful. As it is, these incidents are just a terrible "accidents" with no blame.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Make your analogy more appropriate to the situation.

    Would you EVER leave your toddler at or near the steering wheel?

    If you say yes, I would say you didn't just make a mistake, you showed absolute disregard for the safety of others.

    I have to wonder, if the toddler shot an innocent bystander - it is clear the toddler would not be charged - what charges would the mother face?
    The whole point of this thread was to reinforce the idea that firearm safety is a 24/7 deal. I'm pretty sure that I covered that in the OP and again in various other posts. We have a choice in situations such as this. We can run around waving our hands in the air and screaming "The Horror! The Horror!" or we can discuss basic safety.

    I have no desire to use this tragic incident to disparage decent people who might occasionally make a mistake. They're human and humans sometimes make mistakes.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I doubt there would have been any charges, the NRA would see to that. That is also part of the problem. If it was clear that when a minor gets your gun anything he does with it is your responsibility perhaps gun owners would be more careful. As it is, these incidents are just a terrible "accidents" with no blame.
    There are plenty of charges that could cover this type of instance, reckless endangerment, endangering the welfare of a minor, neglect. Prosecutors however do not want to pursue such charges generally speaking, partially because of the belief, correct belief I might add, that there is very little the criminal justice system can do to make a more severe sanctions in the accident itself. In some cases prosecutors may also believe that juries will be unlikely to convect. A couple years ago in Marysville Washington, A police officer left his gun in his car with his son and daughter also in the car, The sun got a hold of the gun and shot the daughter by accident, I think he was four years old, The Snohomish County prosecutor brought the officer up on multiple charges and took it to trial, and the jury was about evenly split it was a hung jury.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Wasn't talking about forcing them. I was saying a parent may want to have trigger locks on their guns so their kids don't shoot themselves or someone else accidentally. Apologize if that wasn't clear.
    You were clear. You're talking about putting a trigger lock on a gun you are carrying for personal defense. Not a gun that you're putting away, not a gun that you're storing in your car for a few hours, but a gun you're keeping on you just in case the dice roll against you and some punk pulls a knife and wants your wallet. If there's a trigger lock on your gun at that moment, your gun is useless.

    The solution here is to not leave your gun in a bag and move away from it; to always keep your gun on your person and under your 'positive control'.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    There are deaths caused by accidents and deaths caused by ignorance. Think about how that 2 year old will go through life from now on. Also, don't lose sight of the ever growing number of Americans arming themselves in the name of protection. My conceal carry program was quite easy to pass and I was stunned at the ineptness of some of the people on the gun range. The ones that never have so much as held a pistol were reason to consider getting the hell out of there until they were done. Now, in Texas one does not have to re-qualify at the range ever and I don't agree with that.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    There are deaths caused by accidents and deaths caused by ignorance. Think about how that 2 year old will go through life from now on. Also, don't lose sight of the ever growing number of Americans arming themselves in the name of protection. My conceal carry program was quite easy to pass and I was stunned at the ineptness of some of the people on the gun range. The ones that never have so much as held a pistol were reason to consider getting the hell out of there until they were done. Now, in Texas one does not have to re-qualify at the range ever and I don't agree with that.
    When should not have to do training exercise a fundamental right. In Washington we don't require any training at all to get a concealed carry license just to clean criminal background.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You were clear. You're talking about putting a trigger lock on a gun you are carrying for personal defense. Not a gun that you're putting away, not a gun that you're storing in your car for a few hours, but a gun you're keeping on you just in case the dice roll against you and some punk pulls a knife and wants your wallet. If there's a trigger lock on your gun at that moment, your gun is useless.

    The solution here is to not leave your gun in a bag and move away from it; to always keep your gun on your person and under your 'positive control'.
    There is more than one solution here.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    I don't understand not having the safety on when a gun is in the purse. ESPECIALLY with kids around. So many stories of guns getting dropped and firing, much less the many things that can go wrong with kids.

    On comments on the article on one site, several posters said not all guns have safeties. But if you are a parent - especially with young kids - how could you buy a gun without a safety?

    I feel very sorry for this family. And the op is right- it was so easily preventable.

    I suppose there are lots of parents carrying guns, shopping in WalMart, whose kids never fire their guns. But please - take all precautions when carrying such dangerous items.
    Even safer here, would have been not having a round chambered. As a rule it's better to carry with a round chambered but there are many concessions to safety you have to make with kids around. But a toddler cannot rack the slide to chamber a round and it certainly wouldnt be accidental.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Of course it wasn't responsible, you gonna go say that in person to the family?

    They're grieving ok, that's why things like that are said, respect for the dead and all
    Then you leave the comment out. You dont print irresponsible comments just to make people feel better. THen no one learns and others may suffer.

    Deaths are not in vain if people can learn lessons from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    There are deaths caused by accidents and deaths caused by ignorance. Think about how that 2 year old will go through life from now on. Also, don't lose sight of the ever growing number of Americans arming themselves in the name of protection. My conceal carry program was quite easy to pass and I was stunned at the ineptness of some of the people on the gun range. The ones that never have so much as held a pistol were reason to consider getting the hell out of there until they were done. Now, in Texas one does not have to re-qualify at the range ever and I don't agree with that.
    Range qualification is oh so very overrated. Anyone can hit a paper target in a calm and comfortable setting.

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