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Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group [W:22, 100]

Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

I disagree. The "European American rights component" should have been a red flag to Scalise that the group was strange. Duke also founded the National Association for the Advancement of White People.

Speaking to a strange group (in this case, a white ethnocentric one) does not make him a racist- anymore than Obama befriending Nations of Islam types (black ethnocentrics) automatically makes him a racist.

That's because you have the context of a WP group to focus "European American" as being similar to "African American", instead of "European American" being "Europe and America". It's easy to see the red flags in hindsight, not so easy to see them without that perspective.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

A name like David Duke is self-explanatory for anyone who had paid attention to politics in the last two decades and especially LA politics. If he didn't know the group was founded and ran by David Duke he should have known.

That's why I questioned the wisdom of accepting a speaking engagement without doing the legwork to find out who they were. Most people don't have clue what that group was until this issue popped up. Scalise most certainly should have vetted the org. but to assume that he knew who he was speaking to is creating a motivation that you shouldn't assume exists. Pretty much this whole issue is nothing more than an effort by liberals to be able to point to conservatives and say "See, they are all racists!!", then run circles and congratulate each other for being able to assign to another person a trait that you can't prove exists except by virtue of your own desire for it to exist (that's called "bigotry" in case you missed it).
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Mornin' MGOP.
The reason the Conservatives are making a hubbub about it is due to Scalise not being Conservative enough. The conservatives wanted Tom Graves Georgia Republican as the Whip.

This!

If you are right, then the blog that this originated from was indeed Hard-Right Conservative: Stormfront perhaps, or libertarian and in hindsight it was probably libertarian in nature anyway. Does anyone know for sure what blog this originated from?
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

That's because you have the context of a WP group to focus "European American" as being similar to "African American", instead of "European American" being "Europe and America". It's easy to see the red flags in hindsight, not so easy to see them without that perspective.

I see your point- and I think confusion from somebody not involved in poltics such as a businessman- espescially an immigrant, or a native from say, Portland Oregon, would be far more understandable.

Scalise, however, is not only a politician, but he is from the South. As such, the contention that he would not realize that a group named the "European American Rights Orgainization" in NOLA could very well be a white ethnocentric group is a stretch.

It would be similar to a black politician from Chicago saying: "Nations of Islam? Aw shucks, I thought they were you know.... a club presenting the cultures of Islamic nations like Senegal, Chad and Jordan...."

Making a single speech to either a white ethnocentric group, or being briefly assosciated with a black ethnocentrist, however, does not make automatically make one a racist. In short, Scalise is no more automatically a racist than Obama is.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

This!

If you are right, then the blog that this originated from was indeed Hard-Right Conservative: Stormfront perhaps, or libertarian and in hindsight it was probably libertarian in nature anyway. Does anyone know for sure what blog this originated from?



I was thinking Hard core conservatives.....like Santorum and their bunch. Some Tea Partiers not libertarians. As they are not happy with the Leadership. McCarthy is From California and is Moderate like Scalise too.

Then there is Boehner.

I was hoping LMR would be in.....he is from Louisiana and can give us the straight dope.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

My take....

Is it a good look that he talked to that group? No, not at all. It's definitely not a good look for him, or for Republicans in general.

That said...

It was smart on his part to simply own up to the fact he spoke with them from the onset. He also claims that he had not looked significantly into what or who the group was before speaking at the meeting in question.

While it's absolutely possible he's lying, there's little reason to just assume that he is. The meeting in question took place in 2002. The group was created only two years before that, and had gone by an entirely seperate name for it's first two years of life (NO FEAR). All reports from seem to indicate that Scalises statements and discussions at said meeting were about rather benign, standard, Republican talking points regarding welfare programs and things like affirmative action. While people may have varying views on those, and people may like to assume they're Professor X and can read peoples minds, there's nothing inherently racist or vile in terms of having views that affirmative action is not a good program or that we need to cut back on federal welfare spending. Nothing that's been reported seems to suggest this politician was actually articulating or arguing for inherently white supremicist/white nationalist policy/stances/statements. Nor does he have any seeming history of racially questionable statements or actions, outside of the standard pathetic attempts by some hyper partisan liberals to label basic Republican policy beliefs as "racist". There also, at this point, doesn't seem to be some kind of ongoing involvement with this group outside of this particular event.

So does this look bad? Yes. Would it be bad if he knew that this was a white nationalist or supremicist group and went to speak with them anyways? Yes. Would it have been bad if he tried to cover it up? Yes. If it comes out that he's had an ongoing working relationship with that group for multiple years would it be bad? Yes.

But at this moment I'm not seeing anything to get horribly worked up about with where this story currently is. It was discovered he was at said event. He admitted he was at said event. He gave a plausible claim that he didn't realize the groups makeup and ultimately goals at the time; something that seems at least possible given various facts. Nothing he reported to have said or endorsed was inherently a racist or supremcisist/nationalist type of notion, and he's had no seeming continued consistent contact with the group.

Does it look bad? Yes. Does it probably make it smarter politically to go for another whip at this time? Absolutely. But given all the facts that have came out thus far, to me this is kind of a shoulder shrug in terms of some kind of thing to get worked up about in terms of him personally, the party, or him being in congress.
Very well said!

I am not ready to lynch the Congressman in the court of public opinion just yet. he says he was unaware that this was a white supremacist group when he spoke there. I will take his word for it.
I'm with you, particularly given the length of time since this happened and the fact that the politician in question has not repeated this kind of activity again. In fact it appears until the blogger in Louisiana aired these allegations a few days ago, Scalise still did not know the group was associated with David Duke and like minded racist. Seems hard to believe, but his press agent was on TV last night making a pretty good case for the fact that back when this occurred, Scalise was speaking to any and every group he could book an appearance in front of. In the absence of anything else and given the preponderance of charges of racism in our race obsessed culture? I'm going to pass on joining the mob of torch wielding villagers on this one.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

This man gave a speech to a group 12 years ago and people are calling for him to step down.

Charlie Rangel is as dirty as they come and he is acceptable.

There is a disconnect here as to what issues are important.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

That's why I questioned the wisdom of accepting a speaking engagement without doing the legwork to find out who they were. Most people don't have clue what that group was until this issue popped up. Scalise most certainly should have vetted the org. but to assume that he knew who he was speaking to is creating a motivation that you shouldn't assume exists. Pretty much this whole issue is nothing more than an effort by liberals to be able to point to conservatives and say "See, they are all racists!!", then run circles and congratulate each other for being able to assign to another person a trait that you can't prove exists except by virtue of your own desire for it to exist (that's called "bigotry" in case you missed it).

I disagree with you completely on the motivation. I do not know if Scalise is a racist or not. It is not my motivation nor the motivation of any other liberal I know to prove that. What this is an example of tone deafness. I do not believe most or even a significant number of those in the conservative movement are racists. I do believe that most racist groups identify with the conservative movement. Because many of the racist groups in this country seek or believe they are tied to the conservative movement I think it is incumbent on the conservative movement to much more attune to racism and racist concerns then liberal groups. It is not fair but it is reality. The modern conservative movement has, for reasons unbeknownst to me, adopted an almost systemic policy of deafness to racial issues. It seems that if they walk and talk as if racial issues don't exist they won't exist. That is not reality. What then happens is the conservative movement gets tagged fairly or unfairly with the racist tag. Things like going to a group to be a speaker and not first checking to see if their a racist organization is case and point. I have a problem with Scalise not showing due diligence and being tone deaf to racial politics...not what any of us liberal or conservative need in the leadership of our country.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Read more: Steve Scalise office: Likely he spoke to white supremacist group - POLITICO

Well, the man who many have been looking towards as the future of the Republican Party and quite possibly a future President (See house of cards TV Show) seems to have more than a few skeletons in his closet. Not sure about the "rumor" however... It's a very interesting ripple.

Prove that Barack Obama embraces hate groups. You may not use a right-wing rag to do it. Use a credible objective journalistic source.

Ga'head.

What about Nation of Islam activists?
Obama’s Chicago Hate Group Connection | FrontPage Magazine

Who support this:
CROE Online

CROE is not that much different than EURO.

Seems to me that these two speeches were delivered to rather similarly extremist groups.

Seems to me that the politician's treatment should be about the same. Shouldn't it?
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

I disagree with you completely on the motivation. I do not know if Scalise is a racist or not. It is not my motivation nor the motivation of any other liberal I know to prove that. What this is an example of tone deafness. I do not believe most or even a significant number of those in the conservative movement are racists. I do believe that most racist groups identify with the conservative movement. Because many of the racist groups in this country seek or believe they are tied to the conservative movement I think it is incumbent on the conservative movement to much more attune to racism and racist concerns then liberal groups. It is not fair but it is reality. The modern conservative movement has, for reasons unbeknownst to me, adopted an almost systemic policy of deafness to racial issues. It seems that if they walk and talk as if racial issues don't exist they won't exist. That is not reality. What then happens is the conservative movement gets tagged fairly or unfairly with the racist tag. Things like going to a group to be a speaker and not first checking to see if their a racist organization is case and point. I have a problem with Scalise not showing due diligence and being tone deaf to racial politics...not what any of us liberal or conservative need in the leadership of our country.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree with the approach to ending racism. Pretty much what happens is that liberals tend towards magnifying racial issues, while conservatives tend towards minimizing them. Is our goal to make racial issues a bigger deal or a smaller one?? I think that we can agree that making them a smaller issue is a goal we can get behind. Yes?? But what happens is that non-racial issues get turned into racial issues by liberals far too often. So often that for a lot of this country, they get tuned out. Then, when a real racial issue comes up, it gets filed along with the fabricated issues. We need clear identification of when a real racial issue comes up and that's where liberals are screwing up BIG TIME. Too many are willing to make ANY white on black issue automatically a racial issue, when for the most part they are no different than black on black, white on white or black on white. The gross over-reaction by the left has made this issue almost laughable, since they are willing to claim racism when there is none so often that it's become almost a joke. People who intentionally fabricate racist accusations with nothing to base them on except the fact that it was white on black have clouded this issue so badly that no one in their right mind will get behind the idiocy that so many of these claims are based on. As a result, when a real racial issue comes up and same over-reactionaries start demanding justice (rightfully so), they've lost credibility to the point that they hurt their cause more than help it. Right now, the left in this country is over-reacting so badly to racial issues that people are starting to get fed up with it and ignoring every claim.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

What about Nation of Islam activists?
Obama’s Chicago Hate Group Connection | FrontPage Magazine

Who support this:
CROE Online

CROE is not that much different than EURO.

So, what you're saying is it's unfair to convict Congressman Scalise in the court of public opinion based on "guilt by association". But wait...

Wasn't this same thing done to then Sen. Obama before he became POTUS?

Pot...kettle...kettle...pot.

What I find interesting here isn't that this man spoke to a group of people who he claims were part of his constituency or the that all he claims all was doing back then was attempting to illustrate the differences in elect-ability between himself and David Duke or outline differences in tax policy between both candidates. It's the fact that no one has asked what specifically did Scalise say at the event nor has anyone challenged him of the specifics of his conservative views that are so different from those of David Duke or EURO.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

This man gave a speech to a group 12 years ago and people are calling for him to step down.

Charlie Rangel is as dirty as they come and he is acceptable.

There is a disconnect here as to what issues are important.

That is a fair point. Politics often revolves around who can scream the loudest.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

So, what you're saying is it's unfair to convict Congressman Scalise in the court of public opinion based on "guilt by association". But wait...

Wasn't this same thing done to then Sen. Obama before he became POTUS?

Pot...kettle...kettle...pot.

What I find interesting here isn't that this man spoke to a group of people who he claims were part of his constituency or the that all he claims all was doing back then was attempting to illustrate the differences in elect-ability between himself and David Duke or outline differences in tax policy between both candidates. It's the fact that no one has asked what specifically did Scalise say at the event nor has anyone challenged him of the specifics of his conservative views that are so different from those of David Duke or EURO.
Even to ask questions Obama's past was "racist" yet these same people go back 12 years to a speaking engagement and make all sorts of negative judgments. It is pathetic, though not unexpected.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

I see what you're saying, but I disagree with the approach to ending racism. Pretty much what happens is that liberals tend towards magnifying racial issues, while conservatives tend towards minimizing them. Is our goal to make racial issues a bigger deal or a smaller one?? I think that we can agree that making them a smaller issue is a goal we can get behind. Yes?? But what happens is that non-racial issues get turned into racial issues by liberals far too often. So often that for a lot of this country, they get tuned out. Then, when a real racial issue comes up, it gets filed along with the fabricated issues. We need clear identification of when a real racial issue comes up and that's where liberals are screwing up BIG TIME. Too many are willing to make ANY white on black issue automatically a racial issue, when for the most part they are no different than black on black, white on white or black on white. The gross over-reaction by the left has made this issue almost laughable, since they are willing to claim racism when there is none so often that it's become almost a joke. People who intentionally fabricate racist accusations with nothing to base them on except the fact that it was white on black have clouded this issue so badly that no one in their right mind will get behind the idiocy that so many of these claims are based on. As a result, when a real racial issue comes up and same over-reactionaries start demanding justice (rightfully so), they've lost credibility to the point that they hurt their cause more than help it. Right now, the left in this country is over-reacting so badly to racial issues that people are starting to get fed up with it and ignoring every claim.

The same only opposite argument can made with conservatives. Conservatives are so quick to deny any racial motivations in almost every situation that it only fuels the notion that conservatives are racists. Also it causes otherwise low level issues to explode as controversy like this one. To place all the blame on liberals is just asinine and does not help the situation. Also the quick reaction of conservatives to deny racial motivations sometimes fuels the liberal cause to inject race into situations. This is a double edge sword. How is it resolved...by taking the objections of racism by the minority community and minority leaders seriously and not dismissing it out of hand or attacking it as playing the "race card." If we are going to move forward against racism, both real and perceived, the first step is to take people who make those complaints with degree of seriousness and legitimacy instead of attacking them and dismissing them.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

If we are going to move forward against racism, both real and perceived, the first step is to take people who make those complaints with degree of seriousness and legitimacy instead of attacking them and dismissing them.
Most of them simply cannot be taken seriously and, if they are lying, exaggerating, or being hypocritical, then they deserve to be attacked and dismissed.

Liberals see 'racism' everywhere, except in their own precincts.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

That is a fair point. Politics often revolves around who can scream the loudest.

That is correct and my first instinct is to ignore the people yelling the loudest. They are usually a tiny minority which is why they are loudly yelling.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Most of them simply cannot be taken seriously and, if they are lying, exaggerating, or being hypocritical, then they deserve to be attacked and dismissed.

Liberals see 'racism' everywhere, except in their own precincts.

Thank you for showing dismissive behavior first hand. Also thanks for illustrating why conservatives continue to have issue with the racism tag...attack first...never ask questions.

Liberals do not see racism everywhere that is just a dumb statement. One thing that most liberals do is try to take accusations of racism seriously and ask the questions that need to be asked.

Whether you like it or not or agree with it or not there is a huge percentage of minorities in this country that believe racism is systemic and endemic in this country. That IS the perception. You must deal with the perception whether or not you agree with it in order to change that perception. Attacking people and/or dismissing people who bring up racial issues pours gasoline on that fire.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

So, what you're saying is it's unfair to convict Congressman Scalise in the court of public opinion based on "guilt by association". But wait...

Wasn't this same thing done to then Sen. Obama before he became POTUS?

Pot...kettle...kettle...pot.

What I find interesting here isn't that this man spoke to a group of people who he claims were part of his constituency or the that all he claims all was doing back then was attempting to illustrate the differences in elect-ability between himself and David Duke or outline differences in tax policy between both candidates. It's the fact that no one has asked what specifically did Scalise say at the event nor has anyone challenged him of the specifics of his conservative views that are so different from those of David Duke or EURO.

Posted this yesterday. Perhaps it was missed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/us...=top-news&_r=0
“Twelve years ago, I spoke to many different Louisiana groups as a state representative, trying to build support for legislation that focused on cutting wasteful state spending, eliminating government corruption and stopping tax hikes,” Mr. Scalise said. “One of the many groups that I spoke to regarding this critical legislation was a group whose views I wholeheartedly condemn. It was a mistake I regret, and I emphatically oppose the divisive racial and religious views groups like these hold. I am very disappointed that anyone would try to infer otherwise for political gain.”

The furor recalled an episode in 2002, the year Mr. Scalise spoke to the group, when Senator Trent Lott of Mississippi resigned as the Republican Senate leader after expressing regret that then-Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina had not been elected when he ran for president as a segregationist in 1948.
.

Seeing that Duke was not presentIn an interview on Monday with The Washington Post, Mr. Duke described Mr. Scalise as a “nice guy” who had been invited to the EURO conference by two Duke associates. Mr. Duke was out of town at the time of the conference, and spoke to attendees by phone and video links.

And then we have this
In 2004, Mr. Scalise and some other Louisiana Republicans were sharply critical of Mr. Duke when he sought to run for Congress as a Republican.

“David Duke is an embarrassment to our district, and his message of hate only serves to divide us,” Mr. Scalise said, according to a February 2004 news account in New Orleans.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Thank you for showing dismissive behavior first hand. Also thanks for illustrating why conservatives continue to have issue with the racism tag...attack first...never ask questions.
Which questions did you have in mind?

Liberals do not see racism everywhere that is just a dumb statement. One thing that most liberals do is try to take accusations of racism seriously and ask the questions that need to be asked.
No, they do not take it seriously at all. They use race for political purposes, and that is reflected in the statements by their politicians. We can easily see the social damage this has caused.

Whether you like it or not or agree with it or not there is a huge percentage of minorities in this country that believe racism is systemic and endemic in this country. That IS the perception. You must deal with the perception whether or not you agree with it in order to change that perception.
I'm dealing with that perception in this post. "Perceptions' are for the poorly schooled.

Attacking people and/or dismissing people who bring up racial issues pours gasoline on that fire.
Only for the poorly educated adolescents. People lose interest in those who cry wolf continually when there is no substance attached soon lose interest and move on to more important things in their lives.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Why is it a surprise that a White Republican congressman from Louisiana sometime in the past spoke to a white supremacist group?

Are you then suggesting then that perhaps Sen. Landrieau was right when she said:

“To be very, very honest with you, the South has not always been the friendliest place for African-Americans,” she said. “It’s been a difficult time for the president to present himself in a very positive light as a leader. It’s not always been a good place for women to present ourselves. It’s more of a conservative place, so we’ve had to work a little bit harder on that.”

Just curious...
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Which questions did you have in mind?

No, they do not take it seriously at all. They use race for political purposes, and that is reflected in the statements by their politicians. We can easily see the social damage this has caused.

I'm dealing with that perception in this post. "Perceptions' are for the poorly schooled.

Only for the poorly educated adolescents. People lose interest in those who cry wolf continually when there is no substance attached soon lose interest and move on to more important things in their lives.

I question why he would agree to speak at organization he did not know for what they stand for. I question how could a person who is neighbor to a member of the group and known friend and associate of David Duke not know that the likelihood of this organization is racist is pretty high. I question how he could be friends with a neighbor that associates with racist groups and known racists without knowing that that person is a racist. I question his veracity when he states he did not know what the group was. I question his professionalism if he did not know what the group was. I question his judgement if he knew what the group was and spoke anyway. I question his fitness as a leader of our country if he either did not care that the group was racist or did not know the group was racist.

Grant said:
No, they do not take it seriously at all. They use race for political purposes, and that is reflected in the statements by their politicians. We can easily see the social damage this has caused.

Oh so now you know the heart and mind of every liberal and every liberal politician? Can you let me borrow that crystal ball sometime? What social damage in specific are you referring to?

Grant said:
I'm dealing with that perception in this post. "Perceptions' are for the poorly schooled.

This statement is pure nonsense. Perception is not for the poorly schooled. Perception is the reality for those that perceive it. You are speaking nonsense.

Grant said:
Only for the poorly educated adolescents. People lose interest in those who cry wolf continually when there is no substance attached soon lose interest and move on to more important things in their lives.

Again thank you for illustrating the dismissive attitude towards racial issues so obviously.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

The same only opposite argument can made with conservatives. Conservatives are so quick to deny any racial motivations in almost every situation that it only fuels the notion that conservatives are racists. Also it causes otherwise low level issues to explode as controversy like this one. To place all the blame on liberals is just asinine and does not help the situation. Also the quick reaction of conservatives to deny racial motivations sometimes fuels the liberal cause to inject race into situations. This is a double edge sword. How is it resolved...by taking the objections of racism by the minority community and minority leaders seriously and not dismissing it out of hand or attacking it as playing the "race card." If we are going to move forward against racism, both real and perceived, the first step is to take people who make those complaints with degree of seriousness and legitimacy instead of attacking them and dismissing them.

Oh no, liberals do gat to carry the bulk of the burden in this issue. It's been the over-reacting to crap that's caused this kind of reaction in conservatives, not the other way around. The way to address it is to make sure that ONLY the legitimate issues are given the kind of attention that they need and start telling the dimwits who are blowing up non-issues to sit down and shut up. It's the LEFT that's lost integrity by over-reacting to every possible situation that could possibly be spun to look racist and it's the left that needs to take steps to correct that. Like the boy who cried wolf, it wasn't the villagers who were at fault when the wolf really did attack, it was the boy. From the right's perspective, pretty much every complaint of racism starts with "Here we go again. Another over-reaction to something that has no basis is reality." because for the most part that's is the case. Ferguson was a classic example of this. What should have been addressed as strictly an issue of whether the officer was justified in the shooting turned into a racial argument. There was NO evidence of racism by the officer other than the fact that he was a white police officer and yet if you listen to the left, it was ALL about race. Now, because the discussion turned to racism, instead of if the officer was justified, the issue gets treated like a non-issue by conservatives because we aren't even listened to if we don't jump on the racism bandwagon.
 
Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

This man gave a speech to a group 12 years ago and people are calling for him to step down.

Charlie Rangel is as dirty as they come and he is acceptable.

There is a disconnect here as to what issues are important.

Yup. There are serious issues, and what has Congress been doing all these years? Presenting fake Obama birth certificates, having hearings on something that did not happen in Benghazi, smearing Bush on his military record, and the list just goes on and on. But there is good news. Congress is bipartisan. Each side is smearing the other side. Yes, folks. Congress has come together to do some work. Whether that work is important or not is up to you and Bugs Bunny to decide.
 
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Re: Scalise Allegedly Spoke with White Supremacy Group

Seems to me that these two speeches were delivered to rather similarly extremist groups.

Seems to me that the politician's treatment should be about the same. Shouldn't it?

Scalise will most likely be President in the future. I know he wants it, his team wants it, and the Majority of the Republican Party adore him, hence his new title that emboldens that! As has become known since this story has broken out. Even if his term as Whip is damaged somehow, he will be back and he is just getting started. Although something tells me that there is a hard right sector out there that would love to see him gone. The Libertarian Wing think he is too boehner-like and they are afraid of him.

Though the points you bring up are of course interesting. Why can Obama hang out with radicals (no one assumes he is racist, besides for the few that know better) but Republicans cannot even talk to racial groups?? It's a good question the Republicans NEED to bring up when dealing with this story. Most of the well known political news cycle is on vacation right about now, most right wingers will come back on the airwaves in 2015, so they will knock it down.
 
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