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NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

Hi MMC!

That brings up the question then of why the Army was even there. That the strongest military force in the world should be sacrificing these good men and women and then leaving for the Islamists to take over just doesn't make any apparent sense. The families and friends of those people who died in Iraq and Afghanistan must be asking themselves what it was all for.

It seems to me that there has to be some continuity between Presidencies when the country is at war or it will continue to be one defeat after another, with domestic political purposes overriding the welfare of the country and its allies.

The US retreating from the Middle East and Afghanistan will only embolden terrorists, just as we have seen in Iraq, Egypt and Libya. American wars have always been held somewhere else but I'm not sure, with the latest demonstration of weakness, that this good fortune will continue. That the American people themselves are divided and uncertain about foreign policy, even as to who is their enemy, is also a negative indicator.



Mornin' AT. :2wave: This could be a good thing.....in that, it will end the Illusion by those that think the Jihadists. Will stop and spread no where else. Or that they will not come here to the US. That think there will be some sort of Peace. That all the US has to do is leave and not get involved. That this will solve the problem. Which mostly those thinking such do lean left. Then the naysayers. Puts them in the light too.

It will also bring out all the facts with Islam and Arab Muslims. As then the focus is squarely on all of them.....for good or bad. For their countries, their religion, their economies, their people.

Lets see which way they want to live.....For life or for Death. Then we bring them our answer. All of them!
 
Grant I forgot to put you in on this with AT.....sorry about that my brutha. ;)

No, I haven't been drinking alcohol! :lol:



Mornin' AT. :2wave: This could be a good thing.....in that, it will end the Illusion by those that think the Jihadists. Will stop and spread no where else. Or that they will not come here to the US. That think there will be some sort of Peace. That all the US has to do is leave and not get involved. That this will solve the problem. Which mostly those thinking such do lean left. Then the naysayers. Puts them in the light too.

It will also bring out all the facts with Islam and Arab Muslims. As then the focus is squarely on all of them.....for good or bad. For their countries, their religion, their economies, their people.

Lets see which way they want to live.....For life or for Death. Then we bring them our answer. All of them!
 
Mornin' AT. :2wave: This could be a good thing.....in that, it will end the Illusion by those that think the Jihadists. Will stop and spread no where else. Or that they will not come here to the US. That think there will be some sort of Peace. That all the US has to do is leave and not get involved. That this will solve the problem. Which mostly those thinking such do lean left. Then the naysayers. Puts them in the light too.

It will also bring out all the facts with Islam and Arab Muslims. As then the focus is squarely on all of them.....for good or bad. For their countries, their religion, their economies, their people.

Lets see which way they want to live.....For life or for Death. Then we bring them our answer. All of them!
I think most Muslims, like most everyone else, just want to live their lives in peace. But they, like the German people with Nazism, are being overwhelmed by an ideology where brainwashed fanatics are willing to die for the cause of spreading Islam throughout the world. Naysayers will not be tolerated.

The tired "Islam is a religion of Peace' refrain from those who should no better, overlooks the fact that it can also be a religion of war. The latter is having the most influence now while the 'moderates', who still usually defend their religion, are largely powerless.

Islamism will not be stopped until the situation you describe arises, and much damage done. The lesson of Munich, though a cliche, is inescapable.
 
I think most Muslims, like most everyone else, just want to live their lives in peace. But they, like the German people with Nazism, are being overwhelmed by an ideology where brainwashed fanatics are willing to die for the cause of spreading Islam throughout the world. Naysayers will not be tolerated.

The tired "Islam is a religion of Peace' refrain from those who should no better, overlooks the fact that it can also be a religion of war. The latter is having the most influence now while the 'moderates', who still usually defend their religion, are largely powerless.

Islamism will not be stopped until the situation you describe arises, and much damage done. The lesson of Munich, though a cliche, is inescapable.
It goes back to Saudi Arabia's export of Wahhabism :

Analyses - Wahhabism | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS
Critics say that Wahhabism's rigidity has led it to misinterpret and distort Islam, pointing to extremists such as Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.
Wahhabism's explosive growth began in the 1970s when Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques from Islamabad..
 
Is there a connection between the fundamentalism of the Taliban and the fundamentalism of the Wahhabi?

The connection has been growing very, very strong in the past 20 years, and particularly in the past ten years. The dominant school of Islam with which the Taliban associate -- which is known as the Deobandi school -- is very prominent in Afghanistan and also in wide areas of Pakistan. Northern India has increasingly gravitated toward Wahhabi teaching, and has very, very strong organizational ties with various Wahhabi religious leaders.

Analyses - Wahhabism | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS

same reason the Taliban blew up the Standing Buddha's, and ISIL blows up statutes - Salafi is essentially the same as Wahhabism
Afghan Taliban Begin Destruction of Ancient Buddha Statues | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community
 
This is a terrible mistake by Obama and his administration and will come back to bite us in the ass just like Iraq.
 
NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends - The Washington Post

While remaining NATO forces will have a formal mission of providing training and "assistance" to Afghan forces, a separate U.S. force will continue to provide security, logistical support, and engage in "counterterrorism."

In other words a limited combat role for U.S. forces will continue. Five thousand Americans will remain with the NATO contingent of 12,000, while 5,500 U.S. troops will remain in the separate, combat role. In other words, no, the U.S. war in Afghanistan is not over.

true, it's not over.... my boy is readying for yet another tour as we speak.
 
Heya AT. :2wave: Did you see or hear BO's speech on Afghanistan. He claimed it as a success. :roll:

While the Taliban laugh and talk about how BO negotiates to end the War they say isn't over.

Our troops are going to be hard pressed having to watch out for the Taliban and with the re-emergence of AQ in Afghanistan.

Thats the classic lefty tactic-call losing a win so you can feel great about it.
 
As I mentioned, 12 years to late. The place is a shxthole of corruption. it will not change for a multiple of generations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/w...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

KABUL, Afghanistan — Early this year, officials in Washington extolled a rare success in the fight against the drug trade in Afghanistan: The authorities there had imprisoned a leading opium trafficker on the United States’ kingpin list, Haji Lal Jan Ishaqzai.

The incarceration hinted at a newfound willingness by the Afghan authorities to prosecute criminals whose clout once made them untouchable. For those seeking evidence that the United States had not wasted hundreds of millions of dollars propping up Afghanistan’s criminal justice system, here was Exhibit A.

Then Mr. Ishaqzai bribed his way out of prison. He paid a lot — Afghan investigators suspect as much as $14 million, although people who know Mr. Ishaqzai say the figure was much lower. The cash went to a cross-section of people in the criminal justice system, according to Afghan and American officials.
Continue reading the main story

Investigators say they are still trying to piece together what happened. But at its heart, the escape was fairly typical. For years, criminals and Taliban insurgents have been buying their way out of jail, for a fraction of what it cost Mr. Ishaqzai.

The number of people set free through corruption is difficult to track, in part because judges often cover up bribes by requiring a letter — real or forged — from local elders saying the prisoner about to be released will renounce criminality. This makes it difficult to prove whether the judge was moved by mercy or cash.

Still, there are times when the corruption becomes public. Days after a Taliban commander known as Fauji was released in October, he kidnapped the son and a cousin of the mayor of the community where he operated in Oruzgan Province. He demanded 1.8 million Pakistani rupees, or about $17,800, for ransom — exactly the amount he claimed to have paid in bribes. Wali Dad, the police chief for the district where Fauji operates, said that his officers had overheard Taliban fighters bragging on their radios about the number of corrupt officials they had paid off to release Fauji.

“He said he had spent 1.8 million rupees on getting out of prison,” said the mayor, Abdul Rahman, who negotiated with Fauji over the phone for the release of his son and cousin. “He wanted to charge me that amount.”
 
Taliban claim win as NATO quit Afghanistan
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/25876775/

We have not been defeated. We have not signed any agreement with the United States to conclude the war, then where is the sense that America put an end to the war? This means that the US and its allies have been completely defeated and are fleeing from the battlefield," Taliban spokesman Zabiul Mujahid said.
In a statement on Monday, the Taliban said that the withdrawal of ISAF showed that perhaps the countries that invaded the country finally realised that the mission in Afghanistan was "the most idiotic decision of modern history".
 
This is a terrible mistake by Obama and his administration and will come back to bite us in the ass just like Iraq.

Always the same story with you Neo-cons......never saw a war that you didn't love and always want to keep us in war to fuel the war economy to pad the pockets of Enron and the cheney's of the world.....sad that you would do so off the backs of the good men and women of our military.
 
Always the same story with you Neo-cons......never saw a war that you didn't love and always want to keep us in war to fuel the war economy to pad the pockets of Enron and the cheney's of the world.....sad that you would do so off the backs of the good men and women of our military.
We wouldn't have to if libs weren't such giant pansies who refuse to take care of business when they are in.
 
We wouldn't have to if libs weren't such giant pansies who refuse to take care of business when they are in.

LOL.....lets see......who was it that responded to 911 by manipulating the public and starting a war with a country that had zero to do with it....oh...and who was it that got the job done by focusing back on those who actually did attack us? Enough said. sorry Charlie.
 
Taliban claim win as NATO quit Afghanistan
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/25876775/

We have not been defeated. We have not signed any agreement with the United States to conclude the war, then where is the sense that America put an end to the war? This means that the US and its allies have been completely defeated and are fleeing from the battlefield," Taliban spokesman Zabiul Mujahid said.
In a statement on Monday, the Taliban said that the withdrawal of ISAF showed that perhaps the countries that invaded the country finally realised that the mission in Afghanistan was "the most idiotic decision of modern history".


Heya AT. :2wave: They will be feeling their Wheaties and doing some smack talkin' now.
 
Always the same story with you Neo-cons......never saw a war that you didn't love and always want to keep us in war to fuel the war economy to pad the pockets of Enron and the cheney's of the world.....sad that you would do so off the backs of the good men and women of our military.

Not always
WW2 – Roosevelt planned for the coming war - Democrat
Vietnam- Kennedy – Johnston - Democrats
 
Heya AT. :2wave: They will be feeling their Wheaties and doing some smack talkin' now.
no doubt MMC. The Taliban aren't really representative of the Pashtun; anymore then ISIL is of the Levant.

FYI from Ghani:

In a televised address, President Ashraf Ghani marked the transition by calling on Afghans to support their security forces in the interests of building a strong and peaceful country.

“If, a year ago today, you had listened to regional and international analysts, they would never have thought that today would happen,” he said. “They were thinking: ‘How can a country with the problems that Afghanistan has successfully complete a security and political transition?’
Afghan police investigate fatal rocket attack on wedding party | World news | The Guardian

the lead story is about a mortar (rocket?) attack on a wedding party, this time in a house (?)

President Ashraf Ghani called on Afghanistan's army and police on Thursday, to defend the country from the Taliban, hours after 20 wedding guests were killed by a mortar bomb fired during fighting between Afghan forces and insurgents
Ashraf Ghani says Afghan forces now in charge - World - DAWN.COM
 
Indeed.....the Mongols had an answer for them. Especially Kublai Khan. Although, truthfully it wasn't just Afghanistan. It did happen to the Arabs and damn near all of that region. Put in check.....by the Horde.

Happy New Year, MMC. :2wave:

I hope that history does not repeat! Why has that section of the globe always been a curse to those who do not follow that "back to the dark ages" type of thinking? :shock:
 
Happy New Year, MMC. :2wave:

I hope that history does not repeat! Why has that section of the globe always been a curse to those who do not follow that "back to the dark ages" type of thinking? :shock:



Heya Lady P.
hat.gif
I doubt it will ever happen again. To many see that Global economy and Nation building.
 
Heya Lady P.
hat.gif
I doubt it will ever happen again. To many see that Global economy and Nation building.

In a way, I'm satisfied to know that the threat to them that we can turn their area into a sea of glass, if necessary, might be a sufficient deterrent to their ambitions. We've done it before in Nagasaki in WW2, so it's not an idle threat. My only problem with that is the deaths of innocent people that have no voice in what their thuggish leaders do, and the "collateral damage" argument is Bull****!
 
Obama’s plan calls for the roughly 11,000 American troops staying in Afghanistan past Wednesday into the new year to draw down until he leaves office in January 2017

"Has President Obama not learned from his mistakes in Iraq?” the Ohio Republican asked in a statement.

The speaker’s office released a number of excerpts from news reports describing an increase in combat deaths in Afghanistan, areas of territory lost to the Taliban and the comparative weakness of the Afghan National Security Forces without American help. The U.S. troop pullout is premature, Boehner charged, and a “formal” end to the conflict does not mean it’s actually over.

Afghanistan could go the way of Iraq if the U.S. does not do enough to backstop Kabul against the Taliban and terrorists, he argued

John Boehner blasts Obama

Boehner calls the withdrawal based on a political timeline "arbitrary"
 
Obama’s plan calls for the roughly 11,000 American troops staying in Afghanistan past Wednesday into the new year to draw down until he leaves office in January 2017



John Boehner blasts Obama

Boehner calls the withdrawal based on a political timeline "arbitrary"



Well, one would think Boehner would know what the Taliban stated when they got their Office in Qatar. Especially after the Taliban said.....its not over until they say it is over. Or until there are none of them left to say anything at all.
 
Obama’s plan calls for the roughly 11,000 American troops staying in Afghanistan past Wednesday into the new year to draw down until he leaves office in January 2017



John Boehner blasts Obama

Boehner calls the withdrawal based on a political timeline "arbitrary"

As I stated, 12 years to late. The place in a sinkhole. How long and how many troops do you think would be needed to pacify and nation build AStan?
Care to provide some numbers and decades needed?

Here are some numbers for you.
Thousands of US troops killed
1 Trillion spent
Then add in the cost for treating Veterans.

Longest war for US cost $1tn
The Afghanistan war, the longest overseas conflict in American history, has cost the US taxpayer nearly $1tn and will require spending several hundred billion dollars more after it officially ends this month, according to Financial Times calculations and independent researchers.

Around 80 percent of that spending on the Afghanistan conflict has taken place during the presidency of Barack Obama, who sharply increased the US military presence in the country after taking office
 
As I stated, 12 years to late. The place in a sinkhole. How long and how many troops do you think would be needed to pacify and nation build AStan?
Care to provide some numbers and decades needed?

Here are some numbers for you.
Thousands of US troops killed
1 Trillion spent
Then add in the cost for treating Veterans.

Longest war for US cost $1tn
The Afghanistan war, the longest overseas conflict in American history, has cost the US taxpayer nearly $1tn and will require spending several hundred billion dollars more after it officially ends this month, according to Financial Times calculations and independent researchers.

Around 80 percent of that spending on the Afghanistan conflict has taken place during the presidency of Barack Obama, who sharply increased the US military presence in the country after taking office
you're not telling me anything that isn't common knowledge, and to ask me "how many and how long"
is to ask particulars I'm not privy to.

It's extremely easy to criticize the war. I was against it too in terms of a counterinsurgency operation.
There have been more then enough SNAFU's , and I'm not going to make promises or predictions by using US/ISAF/NATO forces,
because that is never going to work.

If there is any chance for the Afghan gov't to succeed, it is not by killing all the Taliban. The goal has to be a negotiated settlement.
The problems are myriad. I've attempted to mention a few in this thread, but to detail them all would take "12 years". so to speak.

We are supposed to drawdown on the "political timeline" (an accurate assessment by Boehner) to embassy level by 2017.

I've given my ( + & - ) strategic evaluations of the situation at this point in time throughout this thread.
If you want to talk about anything specific - other then generalized doom - just do so and I'll give my best response.
 
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