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Thread: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Not for that long, a good majority of time in Iraq was COIN which American forces struggled with. Then again in fairness it wasn't something you had ever really had to do especially compared to our forces which had decades of experience being an "occupying force".
    I will agree. Will you please address my rules of engagement questions though?

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    What? Of course not. You should go back and read our conversation. I would never disrespect our fallen like that.


    Then how the **** are they "different"?

    FFS the statement is ludicrous. If you had said how they were incurred I might have agreed with you, although what's the point? Dead is dead, a loss, a fatality, a dead soldier,a ****ing body bag, no name, just a flag and not covered by MSM.

    Talk about sanitizing horror...
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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Then how the **** are they "different"?

    FFS the statement is ludicrous. If you had said how they were incurred I might have agreed with you, although what's the point? Dead is dead, a loss, a fatality, a dead soldier,a ****ing body bag, no name, just a flag and not covered by MSM.

    Talk about sanitizing horror...
    They are different in a sense of why they happened. Your attempts to draw it down as "dead is dead" are noted, yet irrelevantt. In Iraq we fought a much tougher opponent in URBAN environments as well as rural. Unlike Afghanistan where you have to chase a dude up a mountain for 18 hours just to have him hide in a cave, and then get hit by an IED. Since you were not there, it's natural that you do not understand.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I will agree. Will you please address my rules of engagement questions though?
    I already have, no I don't agree with them however its not really massively different from what was already in place and regardless casualties would of increased anyway.

    You can cite protocol changes, leadership etc but the cold hard facts of war are that when you expose more troops to an enemy more are going to come home in boxes.

    Now could Nato have blown the helmand province ( for example)into dust? Yes they could of but unfortunately that kind of force ended long long ago, long before Obama or even me and you were born.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I already have, no I don't agree with them however its not really massively different from what was already in place and regardless casualties would of increased anyway.

    You can cite protocol changes, leadership etc but the cold hard facts of war are that when you expose more troops to an enemy more are going to come home in boxes.

    Now could Nato have blown the helmand province ( for example)into dust? Yes they could of but unfortunately that kind of force ended long long ago, long before Obama or even me and you were born.
    Maybe, however, my overall point was about why Obama changed the rules of engagement to put us in MORE harm. It's one question I'd love to ask him if I ever got to meet him.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Sometimes, one must admit that a situtation is hopeless and that a ground up (top down?) rebuild is required. A "nation" that has never had a functional central government, has a 5% literacy rate and has one paved road cannot be expected to govern itself, much less, create (and control) a viable security force. In order for "democracy" to have any chance of success in a nation, it first requires a population that can make decisions without having them based, nearly entirely, upon corruption and loyalty to "tribal" leaders that maintain power by force.

    Phantom aid in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    it's very difficult for the country to overcome the ethnic/tribal divisions, while in a civil war with the Pashtuns who don't recognize the international border between Afgh & Paki.

    It has everything going against it, and nationbuilding was a folly. But there have been enough results I mentioned in here (IMHO)
    to at least see it thru further. The drop dead date is 2014 for leaving, so we're going to be there like it or not.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    it's very difficult for the country to overcome the ethnic/tribal divisions, while in a civil war with the Pashtuns who don't recognize the international border between Afgh & Paki.

    It has everything going against it, and nationbuilding was a folly. But there have been enough results I mentioned in here (IMHO)
    to at least see it thru further. The drop dead date is 2014 for leaving, so we're going to be there like it or not.


    We gave the Taliban a Office in Qatar.....they don't negotiate, which they told us Right before Kerry came up with both Afghan Candidates ruling together. They are into a power struggle with each other.

    BO is releasing Taliban and the worst of the worst.....they will not be thinking about kicking their shoes off and sitting anything out. Most will want payback. Which this doesn't count any of the issues dealing with AQ being back in.

    Moreover how many attacks wherein our troopers were shot in the back? They even killed a US Army General. The Afghans like the Pakistani.....cannot be trusted!

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    We gave the Taliban a Office in Qatar.....they don't negotiate, which they told us Right before Kerry came up with both Afghan Candidates ruling together. They are into a power struggle with each other.

    BO is releasing Taliban and the worst of the worst.....they will not be thinking about kicking their shoes off and sitting anything out. Most will want payback. Which this doesn't count any of the issues dealing with AQ being back in.

    Moreover how many attacks wherein our troopers were shot in the back? They even killed a US Army General. The Afghans like the Pakistani.....cannot be trusted!
    Al Qaeda's famous line: "We don't differentiate between civilian and soldier".

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Al Qaeda's famous line: "We don't differentiate between civilian and soldier".


    What makes it worse there are both Afghan and Pakistan fighters inside Syria fighting with ISIS. Which if not crushed will spread to both of the Taliban's sanctuaries.

    They have already spread to Libya, which has AQ operating there, and Ansar al Sharia. ISIS has even picked up supporters from Trinidad and Tobago. They are moving West. Despite any moves to the East.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    The Taliban were "wasted"?


    Can you substantiate that in any credible way?

    The last reports I heard were that the Taliban just slaughtered an entire village on the border with Pakistan in retaliation for the villagers having allowed American forces tom operate.

    If you have some conclusive proof that the Taliban or other little renamed groups are not still killing, raping and torturing women, please present it.
    And they have been getting stronger for years.

    No, I stated toasted - The Northern Alliance was then in power.
    Then the big idea- Nation Building comes about. How did that work out?
    Look at the tribal areas and see how Afghanistan splits. North / South.


    In regards to your post and deflection on most comments. Here ya go.
    OK I can play that way.
    Rwanda - 800 K -

    Uganda -
    World Report 2012: Uganda | Human Rights Watch
    Articles about Mass Murders Uganda - Los Angeles Times

    Then just a step away we have
    Congo
    A brief history of Congo's wars - CSMonitor.com

    Not done yet.
    How is Darfur doing

    and last for this post.

    South Sudan.
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