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Thread: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Show me the rule you are referring to and I will respond. I served in Iraq with the British army and we have similar rules of engagement and have done this the troubles of Northern Ireland, we live in a world that demands we use restraint in combat and this certainly isn't unique to Obama. In fact if I remember rightly the US Rangers had very similar orders during the battle of Mogadishu.

    Troop numbers increased, combat missions increased as did patrols and that is the reason why more casualties happened in the 6-7 years compared to the start of the war.
    I don't know how you could have been a soldier and not heard of this change in ROE under Obama. Unless you were discharged prior to serving under him:

    Spike in battlefield deaths linked to restrictive rules of engagement - Washington Times!

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Show me the rule you are referring to and I will respond. I served in Iraq with the British army and we have similar rules of engagement and have done this the troubles of Northern Ireland, we live in a world that demands we use restraint in combat and this certainly isn't unique to Obama. In fact if I remember rightly the US Rangers had very similar orders during the battle of Mogadishu.

    Troop numbers increased, combat missions increased as did patrols and that is the reason why more casualties happened in the last 6-7 years compared to the start of the war.
    That's why those of us that served under Obama call it the "Wait to get shot" rule. Because that's all you can do in A-stan these days. Thanks for Obama.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Staying in AStan after the Taliban were toasted was and is a complete failure.
    How many killed.
    How many injured.
    How many tens of billions spent that supported corruption.
    After the Taliban were sent on there way, the coalition should have loaded up, got on a plane and left them to kill each other.
    The Taliban were "wasted"?

    Can you substantiate that in any credible way?

    The last reports I heard were that the Taliban just slaughtered an entire village on the border with Pakistan in retaliation for the villagers having allowed American forces tom operate.

    If you have some conclusive proof that the Taliban or other little renamed groups are not still killing, raping and torturing women, please present it.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I don't know how you could have been a soldier and not heard of this change in ROE under Obama. Unless you were discharged prior to serving under him:

    Spike in battlefield deaths linked to restrictive rules of engagement - Washington Times!

    That's an opinion piece which is ignoring the fact that more troops were engaging the enemy during those years than the ones previously. As I said more troops on the ground, more combat missions, more patrols = more casualties.
    A fact you are also conveniently forgetting is that being a US soldier under Bush was no picnic either. Yes less of them died in Afghan but that's because nearly 5k of them were dying in Iraq which is nearly double the casualties of Afghan is half the time period.
    Now don't get me wrong I am not a fan of modern rules of engagement as I pointed our earlier we tie a hand behind our back every time we get into these "wars" but this isn't Obama's fault nor is it Bush's, Blair's etc. We live in a world with 24 hours news, a squeamish public and shrewd politicians.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    That's an opinion piece which is ignoring the fact that more troops were engaging the enemy during those years than the ones previously. As I said more troops on the ground, more combat missions, more patrols = more casualties.
    A fact you are also conveniently forgetting is that being a US soldier under Bush was no picnic either. Yes less of them died in Afghan but that's because nearly 5k of them were dying in Iraq which is nearly double the casualties of Afghan is half the time period.
    Now don't get me wrong I am not a fan of modern rules of engagement as I pointed our earlier we tie a hand behind our back every time we get into these "wars" but this isn't Obama's fault nor is it Bush's, Blair's etc. We live in a world with 24 hours news, a squeamish public and shrewd politicians.
    Whoa whoa whoa dude. I don't care about the opinion piece. The fact is that Obama changed the Rules of Engagement and you didn't know, so I merely provided an article that mentioned it since apparently you were on leave and didn't get the memo. That article had nothing to do with my opinion.

    And you KEEP dodging my question about the ROE. Do you think Obama did the right thing by creating the 'wait to get shot' rule? I think we both know the answer to that question. You're a military man too, you KNOW how unpopular he became in the military when he started that bull(@*#

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    That's an opinion piece which is ignoring the fact that more troops were engaging the enemy during those years than the ones previously. As I said more troops on the ground, more combat missions, more patrols = more casualties.
    A fact you are also conveniently forgetting is that being a US soldier under Bush was no picnic either. Yes less of them died in Afghan but that's because nearly 5k of them were dying in Iraq which is nearly double the casualties of Afghan is half the time period.
    Now don't get me wrong I am not a fan of modern rules of engagement as I pointed our earlier we tie a hand behind our back every time we get into these "wars" but this isn't Obama's fault nor is it Bush's, Blair's etc. We live in a world with 24 hours news, a squeamish public and shrewd politicians.
    Also, the casualties in Iraq are 100% different. We fought more conventionally over there compared to A-stan. Heck, we were up against an actual Army for a while.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    We have to defend ourselves. So first we need to see if non intervention will stop them attacking us, and if not, then we drop in, kill everyone in sight, and go home. No need to have troops stationed in every middle eastern country protecting one dictator from another.
    And how's that working out for you?

    This "drop in" has been 13 years and counting. That's a long "drop in" considering it ain't even over
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Also, the casualties in Iraq are 100% different. We fought more conventionally over there compared to A-stan. Heck, we were up against an actual Army for a while.
    Are they less dead?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Also, the casualties in Iraq are 100% different. We fought more conventionally over there compared to A-stan. Heck, we were up against an actual Army for a while.
    Not for that long, a good majority of time in Iraq was COIN which American forces struggled with. Then again in fairness it wasn't something you had ever really had to do especially compared to our forces which had decades of experience being an "occupying force".
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Are they less dead?
    What? Of course not. You should go back and read our conversation. I would never disrespect our fallen like that.

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