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Thread: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I never once stated it was sadder than that. I said it is a sad time in US history. The only one who put spin on it is you.
    Well when you make statements about obama changing the rules of engagement you open yourself upto that. America like many other countries struggled to declare total victory in Afghanistan because we tie one hand behind our backs every time we go into these type of conflicts. Did the same in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa etc. No one is willing to get their hands dirty anymore.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Well when you make statements about obama changing the rules of engagement you open yourself upto that. America like many other countries struggled to declare total victory in Afghanistan because we tie one hand behind our backs every time we go into these type of conflicts. Did the same in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa etc. No one is willing to get their hands dirty anymore.
    Oh you were referring to that. Yes, Obama's decision to have more of us killed was a dumb one. Hence why over 70% of casualties since 2001 in Afghanistan happened under Obama. His "wait to get shot" rule is one for the record books.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    The war against Afghanistan ended over a decade ago. Their citizens elected new leaders, formed a new government, ratified a Constitution. Our soldiers fight alongside and train with Afghinstan soldiers and police officers. So...

    The question you have to ask now is what just happened? Did we decide that post war ops are no longer needed? Who were we at 'combat' with and what were the parameters to declare victory (or did we just sound retreat?)?

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Sadder than Vietnam, Somalia?

    This isn't your first dance no matter how much anti obama spin you put on it.
    I'll say it...Yes. Sadder than that....Because VN, Somalia, and even Korea to some extent, the US could say wasn't a properly executed conflict, about any of them, in that it kept the world on good order still because there was still the respect, and fear that an absolute commitment from the US would bring a world of hurt...All this "limited" engagement crap, and the so called "new way to wage war" is just that...Pure crap...Now, the rest of the world, and our enemies, don't respect us, don't fear us, and damned sure don't care what we want anymore...Obama always said that we were no more exceptional than anyone else, he has made that a reality....Now how many will die because of that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    Oh you were referring to that. Yes, Obama's decision to have more of us killed was a dumb one. Hence why over 70% of casualties since 2001 in Afghanistan happened under Obama. His "wait to get shot" rule is one for the record books.
    70% of casualties happened in Afghanistan under Obamas presidency because their was a renewed effort during those years. Bush switched a lot of focus to Iraq however in the first five months of 2008 troop numbers increased by 80% and then Obama added another 30k during the "surge" of 2010. There was also a lot more activity during this time against the Taliban especially in the Helmand region ( operation eagle summit etc) a region where the Taliban had dug in. Casualties increased not only with Americans but also with the British and other Nato forces.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    70% of casualties happened in Afghanistan under Obamas presidency because their was a renewed effort during those years. Bush switched a lot of focus to Iraq however in the first five months of 2008 troop numbers increased by 80% and then Obama added another 30k during the "surge" of 2010. There was also a lot more activity during this time against the Taliban especially in the Helmand region ( operation eagle summit) a region where the Taliban had dug in. Casualties increased not only with Americans but also with the British and other Nato forces.
    So you support his move to change the rules of engagement to the 'wait to get shot' rule? You're a supporter of that is what you're impying? You keep ignoring that part so I have to bring it up. Because those of us (especially during the Surge under Obama) who served, know that this rule kills Americans.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends - The Washington Post

    While remaining NATO forces will have a formal mission of providing training and "assistance" to Afghan forces, a separate U.S. force will continue to provide security, logistical support, and engage in "counterterrorism."

    In other words a limited combat role for U.S. forces will continue. Five thousand Americans will remain with the NATO contingent of 12,000, while 5,500 U.S. troops will remain in the separate, combat role. In other words, no, the U.S. war in Afghanistan is not over.


    Once again we see an administration practicing that for which Bush was tarred and fathered...."Mission Accomplished".

    As I read the OP, this means there will be still 10,500 American troops after this, 5,500 of which will be active combat. Ironically, 10,000 troops where what Iraq's government wanted left behind when Obama "ended" that one.

    So we have essentially 17,500 troops in country in supposed "training and support" missions, which likely means running drones, support artillery etc.

    That's "Mission Accomplished" in Obamaland.

    One good aspect, he appears to have learned from the Iraq disaster.
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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    So you support his move to change the rules of engagement to the 'wait to get shot' rule? You're a supporter of that is what you're impying? You keep ignoring that part so I have to bring it up. Because those of us (especially during the Surge under Obama) who served, know that this rule kills Americans.
    Show me the rule you are referring to and I will respond. I served in Iraq with the British army and we have similar rules of engagement and have done this the troubles of Northern Ireland, we live in a world that demands we use restraint in combat and this certainly isn't unique to Obama. In fact if I remember rightly the US Rangers had very similar orders during the battle of Mogadishu.

    Troop numbers increased, combat missions increased as did patrols and that is the reason why more casualties happened in the last 6-7 years compared to the start of the war.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's putting the best light on it.
    We have to defend ourselves. So first we need to see if non intervention will stop them attacking us, and if not, then we drop in, kill everyone in sight, and go home. No need to have troops stationed in every middle eastern country protecting one dictator from another.

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    Re: NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    70% of casualties happened in Afghanistan under Obamas presidency because their was a renewed effort during those years. Bush switched a lot of focus to Iraq however in the first five months of 2008 troop numbers increased by 80% and then Obama added another 30k during the "surge" of 2010. There was also a lot more activity during this time against the Taliban especially in the Helmand region ( operation eagle summit etc) a region where the Taliban had dug in. Casualties increased not only with Americans but also with the British and other Nato forces.

    Yeah, it was all Bush's fault.

    Seems to me Bush invented the idea of "surge" and lost a lot less people when he did it.

    Having said that, heading into the seventh year of Obamapolitics, isn't it time he and his trolls started looking at their own mistakes, or are you like most "stupid voters" and believe he is incapable of error?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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