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AirAsia flight QZ8501 loses contact with air traffic control: reports

JANFU said:
Yes, there are a number of them.

Heard it on CBC last night. They were not clear on how many airlines were banned from the EU due to safety records.
From 2009
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/7665066/100-bali-fares-likely-in-air-war/

From 2008
Thailand Aviation: EU updates blacklist: removes Mahan Airlines
In the case of Indonesia, the Commission and the Air Safety Committee which is composed of all EU Member States heard three airlines at their request – Garuda, Mandala and Air Fast, along with the authorities for civil aviation of Indonesia. Following the unanimous opinion of the Air Safety Committee, the Commission decided that the Indonesian authorities have still not developed and implemented an efficient oversight programme on any of the carriers under their regulatory control. Besides, the corrective actions designed to address safety deficiencies detected by the ICAO and by the Commission, have not yet been assessed by ICAO.


Indonesia AirAsia route map - from Singapore
PT. Indonesia AirAsia (operating as Indonesia AirAsia) is a low-cost airline based in Jakarta, Indonesia. It operates scheduled domestic, international services and is an Indonesian associate carrier of Malaysian low-fare airline AirAsia. Its main base is Soekarno-Hatta International Airport, Jakarta. Until July 2010, Indonesia Air Asia, along with many Indonesian airlines, was banned from flying to the EU due to safety concerns. However the ban was lifted on July 2010. As of 15 April 2009, all AirAsia domestic flights from Jakarta started operating from terminal 3 but the international flights continues to operate from terminal 2D. Prior to moving to T3, the airline flew from Terminal 1C. Indonesia AirAsia is listed in category 1 by Indonesian Civil Aviation Authority for airline safety quality. In 2011, this 100 percent Airbus airline dominated international market in Indonesia by 41.50 percent.
Click to expand...

But, Indonesia Air Aisa can't fly to Europe on A320's, no range. Now, Air Asia X, a different airline with a different cert, under the Air Asia name used to fly to Europe with A330's. Lots of airlines get this ban, but it is usually nothing too serious.
 
beefheart said:
But, Indonesia Air Aisa can't fly to Europe on A320's, no range. Now, Air Asia X, a different airline with a different cert, under the Air Asia name used to fly to Europe with A330's. Lots of airlines get this ban, but it is usually nothing too serious.
Click to expand...

My opinion -They did not get banned for small reasons, minor slip ups. When you say lots, there are indeed a substantial number. From Eastern Europe to Africa to Asia.
I assume these are based upon significant safety infractions, multiples, failure to implement procedures after failing inspections, not maintaining correct records of maintenance performed to a lack of maintenance.
 
JANFU said:
My opinion -They did not get banned for small reasons, minor slip ups. When you say lots, there are indeed a substantial number. From Eastern Europe to Africa to Asia.
I assume these are based upon significant safety infractions, multiples, failure to implement procedures after failing inspections, not maintaining correct records of maintenance performed to a lack of maintenance.
Click to expand...

Usually it has to do with training or incomplete MEL's. Anyway...they have been a good, well run airline for years, I never had any issue flying on them.
 
eohrnberger said:
However, I still maintain that there is a good deal of culture that makes it's way into software and systems inherited there from the culture of the software and systems designers. True, not a specific part of the topic under discussion here, but that was my point.
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I cannot make this any more simple:

There is no "big government vs small government" cultural difference in autopilot software.
 
Deuce said:
I cannot make this any more simple:

There is no "big government vs small government" cultural difference in autopilot software.
Click to expand...

That's nice. But that's not what I was saying in my follow up posts. If you noticed, I agreed with you that the common sourcing of the autopilot systems eliminated that.
 
beefheart said:
Usually it has to do with training or incomplete MEL's. Anyway...they have been a good, well run airline for years, I never had any issue flying on them.
Click to expand...

Yes they have. i believe Air Asia has an excellent record, load at 52 % for break even, fastest turnaround time, more time for the AC in the air.
 
Still no news, what an awful situation.

My thoughts are with the passengers and families/friends waiting for news of their loved ones.
 
JANFU said:
AirAsia flight QZ8501 loses contact with air traffic control: reports - World - CBC News

An Air Asia flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore lost contact with air traffic control on Sunday, Indonesian media said, citing a Transport Ministry official.

Transport Ministry official Hadi Mustofa said the aircraft, flight number QZ8501, lost contact with the Jakarta air traffic
control tower at 6:17 a.m local time.

He said the plane had asked for an unusual route before it lost contact.

The flight is reportedly an Airbus 320-200 with 155 people on board
Click to expand...

If this turns out to be another MH 370--no trace of the plane found after months of searching, then the passengers' relatives need to put out a bitcoin reward for evidence. The MH 370 passengers have done this but are still trying to raise the money

MH370 families seek $5M for investigation, reward - CNN.com

I'd strongly recommend bitcoin. Whoever wants to come forward needs to be protected from investigation by any govt.
 
From what I've read the sea water is shallower where it probably went down and very well traveled by boats. Much more likely they will find something.
 
If all major banks' computers can be hacked why not hack an air planes?
 
Earlier in 2014, Only two crew aboard, 38,000 feet, better weather, same type
Incident: Jetstar A320 enroute on Mar 12th 2014, alpha floor activation
"Incident: Jetstar A320 enroute on Mar 12th 2014, alpha floor activation.....//..The ATSB rehearsed the flight crew operating manual procedures, renewed by Airbus mid 2013, stating that the autopilot should be kept on in case of a climbing/descending overspeed event.//... "
-------------------------
Leave autopilot on.
Unless the aoa probes are blocked, turn autopilot off, uncommanded nose down, two week old AD:
--------------------------
http://cdn1.atp.com/ADs/pdf/142551e.pdf
“ DATE: December 10, 2014
AD #:
2014-25-51
Emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2014-25-51 is sent to owners and operators of Airbus Model A318, A319, A320, and A321 series airplanes...//...When Alpha Prot is activated due to blocked AoA probes, the flight control laws order a continuous nose down pitch rate that, in a worst case scenario, cannot be stopped with backward sidestick inputs, even in the full backward position.,,,

If the Mach number increases during a nose down order, the AoA value of the Alpha Prot will continue to decrease. As a result, the flight control laws will continue to order a nose down pitch rate, even if the speed is above minimum selectable speed, known as VLS.
This condition, if not corrected, could result in loss of control of the aeroplane....//.."
-----------------------------------
Wild unfounded Speculation:
airworthiness directive issued two weeks before aircraft loss, pilot flying familiarity with newest AD unknown:

Missing Airbus makes 120 degree sharp turn, sudden climb from 32000 to 38000 feet, bad wx avoidance ,from radar . 100 nautical miles of heavy weather, tops maybe 50,000 feet

Cruise and stall speed very close together at 38000 feet on Airbus 320 (737 slightly better )
Aircraft has over 8000 kg fuel,plus passengers , unlike empty safely landed Australian flight

Defective angle of attack indicators combined with wx avoidance climb and bank , autopilot forces nose down
Flight crew does not manage to regain control from Alphaprot
Aircraft exceeds vne, in flight breakup from excess g

/end wild speculation
 
Last edited:
Fred said:
Earlier in 2014, Only two crew aboard, 38,000 feet, better weather, same type
Incident: Jetstar A320 enroute on Mar 12th 2014, alpha floor activation
"Incident: Jetstar A320 enroute on Mar 12th 2014, alpha floor activation.....//..The ATSB rehearsed the flight crew operating manual procedures, renewed by Airbus mid 2013, stating that the autopilot should be kept on in case of a climbing/descending overspeed event.//... "
-------------------------
Leave autopilot on.
Unless the aoa probes are blocked, turn autopilot off, uncommanded nose down, two week old AD:
--------------------------
http://cdn1.atp.com/ADs/pdf/142551e.pdf
“ DATE: December 10, 2014
AD #:
2014-25-51
Emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2014-25-51 is sent to owners and operators of Airbus Model A318, A319, A320, and A321 series airplanes...//...When Alpha Prot is activated due to blocked AoA probes, the flight control laws order a continuous nose down pitch rate that, in a worst case scenario, cannot be stopped with backward sidestick inputs, even in the full backward position.,,,

If the Mach number increases during a nose down order, the AoA value of the Alpha Prot will continue to decrease. As a result, the flight control laws will continue to order a nose down pitch rate, even if the speed is above minimum selectable speed, known as VLS.
This condition, if not corrected, could result in loss of control of the aeroplane....//.."
-----------------------------------
Wild unfounded Speculation:
airworthiness directive issued two weeks before aircraft loss, pilot flying familiarity with newest AD unknown:

Missing Airbus makes 120 degree sharp turn, sudden climb from 32000 to 38000 feet, bad wx avoidance ,from radar . 100 nautical miles of heavy weather, tops maybe 50,000 feet

Cruise and stall speed very close together at 38000 feet on Airbus 320 (737 slightly better )
Aircraft has over 8000 kg fuel,plus passengers , unlike empty safely landed Australian flight

Defective angle of attack indicators combined with wx avoidance climb and bank , autopilot forces nose down
Flight crew does not manage to regain control from Alphaprot
Aircraft exceeds vne, in flight breakup from excess g

/end wild speculation
Click to expand...


Considering the root causes of the Brazilian Airbus crash in the Atlantic, I would also WAG in this direction. Now that they have quickly located wreckage and bodies, they should find the BBs in short order.
They probably need a big red button that says "Computer off" .
 
rhinefire said:
If all major banks' computers can be hacked why not hack an air planes?
Click to expand...

Because you have to be able to connect to a computer to be able to hack it. Autopilot systems simply don't have a mechanism for accepting commands from outside the aircraft, and even if they could an autopilot can be disabled by simply pulling its circuit breaker.
 
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