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NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

EnigmaO01 said:
Well one can only make the diwits in the mideast killing each other only so interesting so long. And there is a phenomenon known as outrage fatigue.
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Greetings, Enigma001. :2wave:

Personally, I think we should be focusing on their individual egos. A little deadly competition between all contenders for supremacy should be encouraged to find the best leader in all the ME, and daily reports should be trumpeted by our MSM, much like that which is used in our Presidential elections. Routine stories about who made a big error in judgment; who seems to be the best liked at the time; who probably can't be trusted by their own people, who failed in an attempt to bomb something important; who has the most fervent followers, etc - IOW, smears! :lamo: That has been successful for a long time in this Country at election time, maybe it could be used to encourage them to do each other in. After that, they're on their own. It works in the rest of the world, maybe the dimwits could be encouraged to try it! We're already interfering, so what's the downside? The novelty alone would keep people interested!
 
donsutherland1 said:
Several points:

1. The private security experts did not necessarily have access to all of the information that the FBI and U.S. Intelligence sources had, (cyberspace and non-cyberspace e.g., possible intercepted communications).
2. The FBI only revealed a small portion of the information that was reviewed by the U.S., with sensitive information that could compromise sources and methods of collection not released.
3. The information that was not released may well have provided evidence that made it highly likely that North Korea did, in fact, organize the attack.
4. North Korea has engaged in provocations and other acts of aggression on a repeated basis. It defies logic that North Korea would treat cyberspace as if it were some neutral ground.

IMO, the U.S. acted appropriately in addressing this case. In doing so, it made an initial down payment on creating deterrence in cyberspace.
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You forgot the 5th and most important evidence that these "experts" are not really. Consider the source. The Daily Mail is full of hooey most of the time. I dismiss the whole thing as a publicity stunt.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I don't question their expertise. Even experts, when examining a relatively small sample, can reach incorrect conclusions. That's because the sample in question wasn't representative. The largest amount of information--and more than just computer-related--remains classified. It is that information that provides a strong degree of confidence that North Korea was responsible. Launching the first retaliatory cyberattack is precedent-setting, and it is highly unlikely the U.S. would have done so or indicated it would do so (with a proportionate response) without fairly conclusive evidence.
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The U.S. government has been doing cyber attacks for years, albeit on a smaller scale.

What this argument comes down to is whether or not you trust the word of the government. I personally don't, especially given the qualified doubts of the experts I've been reading. And as I said, normally I wouldn't trust Kim Jong-un, but even he is denying that NK did anything. Their IT network is not sophisticated enough to hack Sony. They would've either had help from a much more influential power, like China or Russia, or our government is doing the old bait and switch. After all, most people will believe Obama over Kim Jong, just as you do.
 
Crovax said:
Seriously?

Read up on the gulf of Tonkin incident and see if the govt would prematurely condemn a country and then stay the course on it.
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Sure but, you go straight to such a wild explanation? You really think we'd do something like that now for what reason could possibly be important enough to warrant such a dangerous tactic? The story is already blown if that's the case and it'd be the most ridiculous false flag in history.

You really think Obama and the FBI, CIA would try something like this with the right-wing already up his ass about things he didn't even do? Also with the torture issue on the table?
 
Verax said:
Sure but, you go straight to such a wild explanation? You really think we'd do something like that now for what reason could possibly be important enough to warrant such a dangerous tactic? The story is already blown if that's the case and it'd be the most ridiculous false flag in history.

You really think Obama and the FBI, CIA would try something like this with the right-wing already up his ass about things he didn't even do? Also with the torture issue on the table?
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You are the one going off the tin foil deep end, no one said false flag. Lets get the facts straight, in the gulf of Tonkin we honestly thought we were attacked and LBJ made a speech to the American public before all the facts were in and hours later when we knew the full story we choose to keep up the story to avoid embarrassment. This isnt some crazy conspiracy between Obama and the FBI like you are trying to make it out just Obama making bold statements before he knows all the facts, something he has had a problem with continually in his presidency since most of his intel seems to come from the news. Im not saying that is what happened in this case but its certainly not out of the realm of reality.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
You do realize your constant digression to disparaging comments about the president ruins any unbiased credibility may have right?
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Nah not at all. Truly you haven't lived long enough to know about those that Lead the Way and are Phenoms.

But I am glad to know that it bothers the left.....with what they can't handle.
 
Crovax said:
You are the one going off the tin foil deep end, no one said false flag. Lets get the facts straight, in the gulf of Tonkin we honestly thought we were attacked and LBJ made a speech to the American public before all the facts were in and hours later when we knew the full story we choose to keep up the story to avoid embarrassment. This isnt some crazy conspiracy between Obama and the FBI like you are trying to make it out just Obama making bold statements before he knows all the facts, something he has had a problem with continually in his presidency since most of his intel seems to come from the news. Im not saying that is what happened in this case but its certainly not out of the realm of reality.
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You said it yourself, its very unlikely anything of that magnitude is happening here.
 
Verax said:
You said it yourself, its very unlikely anything of that magnitude is happening here.
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Obama getting the facts wrong is an event of great magnitude?
 
Crovax said:
Obama getting the facts wrong is an event of great magnitude?
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You brought up the Gulf of Tonkin incident which is what I was mostly referring to.

If you listen to right-wing news then yes Obama gets the facts wrong on an hourly basis. However in the real world it is unlikely Obama would speak about this definitively unless it were true.
 
Verax said:
You brought up the Gulf of Tonkin incident which is what I was mostly referring to.

If you listen to right-wing news then yes Obama gets the facts wrong on an hourly basis. However in the real world it is unlikely Obama would speak about this definitively unless it were true.
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I brought it up as an example of a president acting strongly without the facts and you made up some crazy story about false flag attacks like it was an Alex Jones show.
 
Crovax said:
I brought it up as an example of a president acting strongly without the facts and you made up some crazy story about false flag attacks like it was an Alex Jones show.
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Crazy story? It was used as a pretext for war and an excuse to "fight communism". I'd say that's a pretty serious offense. Intelligence agents falsified information to show an attack that never occurred.
 
Verax said:
Crazy story? It was used as a pretext for war and an excuse to "fight communism". I'd say that's a pretty serious offense. Intelligence agents falsified information to show an attack that never occurred.
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That isnt what happened
 
MMC said:
Nah not at all. Truly you haven't lived long enough to know about those that Lead the Way and are Phenoms.
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I remember Kennedy and Johnson very well and lived through the Vietnam conflict. How old are you?
 
Crovax said:
That isnt what happened
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I'd say its quite possible that is what happened. This isn't some half baked Alex Jones pulled out of my ass claim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/world/asia/15vietnam.html

Robert J. Hanyok, a retired National Security Agency historian, said Wednesday in an interview that “there were doubts, but nobody wanted to follow up on the doubts,” perhaps because “they felt they’d gone too far down the road.”

Mr. Hanyok concluded in 2001 that N.S.A. officers had deliberately falsified intercepted communications in the incident to make it look like the attack on Aug. 4, 1964, had occurred, although he said they acted not out of political motives but to cover up earlier errors.

Many historians say that President Johnson might have found reason to escalate military action against North Vietnam even without the Tonkin Gulf crisis, and that he apparently had his own doubts. Historians note that a few days after the supposed attack he told George W. Ball, the under secretary of state, “Hell, those dumb, stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish!”
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Crovax said:
Obama getting the facts wrong is an event of great magnitude?
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Considering he has the intelligence of the FBI, NSA, and CIA at his disposal, if he got it wrong so did they. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge. If they got it wrong, and made the CIC look bad, it would reflect quite poorly on them. So it's very unlikely they would go out in a limb and say it was North Korea if they didn't have good intelligence.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
I remember Kennedy and Johnson very well and lived through the Vietnam conflict. How old are you?
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Older than you and I served and shed blood in the Vietnam Conflict. How bout you? Also, you shouldn't try to go by everything you read out of a book.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Considering he has the intelligence of the FBI, NSA, and CIA at his disposal, if he got it wrong so did they. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge. If they got it wrong, and made the CIC look bad, it would reflect quite poorly on them. So it's very unlikely they would go out in a limb and say it was North Korea if they didn't have good intelligence.
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What rock have you been living under? Those same agencies got it wrong with the WMDs in Iraq and both parties were so bold about supporting that intel
 
Crovax said:
What rock have you been living under? Those same agencies got it wrong with the WMDs in Iraq and both parties were so bold about supporting that intel
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Once again, as a pretext for war. Do you see a pattern here?

Why would we do this with NK? What prize lies herein? I don't see it.
 
MMC said:
Older than you and I served and shed blood in the Vietnam Conflict. How bout you? Also, you shouldn't try to go by everything you read out of a book.
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So you're older. Doesn't make you wiser.

Thank you for serving and thank you for your sacrifice.

I served years later after graduating from college but was still in high school when Vietnam ended. Also quite young as I started 1st grade at age 4.

My father was there and in Cambodia, and nearly didn't make it back several times. Probably wouldn't have if he hadn't contracted hepatitis.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
If that's a link it doesn't work. I rest my case.
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Oh were you trying to be funny? Or is it due to your lack of not knowing much about anything?



Fox Poll: Most Americans Think Obama Lies.....

President Barack Obama has lost the trust of most Americans: a new poll shows that about six in 10 voters think he lies on important issues some or most of the time.

The Fox News poll found that 37 percent think the president lies "most of the time." Another 24 percent say he lies "some of the time." Twenty percent say Obama lies "only now and then," and 15 percent say he "never" lies, the survey found.

In the latest survey, among those who said the president lies most of the time were Democrats (13 percent) and other key Obama supporters: blacks (12 percent), liberals (16 percent), unmarried women (31 percent) and people under 30 (34 percent), results showed.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Fox Poll: Most Americans Think Obama Lies
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Q-poll shows how President Obama, seen as untrustworthy, hurts Democrats in FL
Read more here: Q-poll shows how President Obama, seen as untrustworthy, hurts Democrats in FL | Naked Politics



Looks like I will have to rest my case.....and go with you don't know much about anything. Next time do your own homework, this way you won't come out on the short end of the stick.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
So you're older. Doesn't make you wiser.

Thank you for serving and thank you for your sacrifice.

I served years later after graduating from college but was still in high school when Vietnam ended. Also quite young as I started 1st grade at age 4.

My father was there and in Cambodia, and nearly didn't make it back several times. Probably wouldn't have if he hadn't contracted hepatitis.
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Post 49.....check out the Wisdom. Comes with knowing and the experience. Which I have plenty in dealing with leftists.
 
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