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Thread: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

  1. #111
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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Here's a good start in your education.

    How to Trace a DDOS Attack

    After writing out the botnets at the router level it's the job for the NOC (Network Operating Center) folks to shut down the zombie army controllers (like generals in the army vein). At this point it's possible to peek into the traffic controlling the generals. That's typically your source. You can't always get it down to precise location, but you can get the country/region. Packet sniffers help.
    Proxy chaining allows sophisticated attackers to hide behind so many layers that its basically impossible to find them.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Proxy chaining allows sophisticated attackers to hide behind so many layers that its basically impossible to find them.
    Agreed. And as a note for those who chimed in about proxy servers, this isn't a single proxy, but a complex chain of random switching involving a great number of proxies. However, I've seen no evidence thus far that was the case here (I've been following on ARS and a couple security sites). That's a fairly deep attack. However, the big boys have predictive sniffers that can now follow the chain to the author. It's not the shield the movies and TV like to show.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Here's a good start in your education.

    How to Trace a DDOS Attack
    I read it, and nowhere in that article does it say how the sys admin of the network under attack can trace the geographic origin of a TCP SYN flood, and that's what you claimed in your post.

    It only states that the ISPs of the residences where there are botnet infected PCs can determine if these attacks are originating from their members' PCs., which is already known.

    After writing out the botnets at the router level it's the job for the NOC (Network Operating Center) folks to shut down the zombie army controllers (like generals in the army vein). At this point it's possible to peek into the traffic controlling the generals. That's typically your source. You can't always get it down to precise location, but you can get the country/region. Packet sniffers help.
    WRONG. The ISPs who provide Internet service to the owners of the botnet-infected computers can determine the precise location of the attacks since they can examine the MAC address of the transporting ethernet packets hitting their routers, and the MAC addresses trace back to customer cable modems.

    What is not possible is for a sys admin of a network under a TCP SYN flood attack to track down the ISPs where the TCP SYN packets originated--your assertion, and so. . .you're wrong.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    I read it, and nowhere in that article does it say how the sys admin of the network under attack can trace the geographic origin of a TCP SYN flood, and that's what you claimed in your post.

    It only states that the ISPs of the residences where there are botnet infected PCs can determine if these attacks are originating from their members' PCs., which is already known.

    WRONG. The ISPs who provide Internet service to the owners of the botnet-infected computers can determine the precise location of the attacks since they can examine the MAC address of the transporting ethernet packets hitting their routers, and the MAC addresses trace back to customer cable modems.

    What is not possible is for a sys admin of a network under a TCP SYN flood attack to track down the ISPs where the TCP SYN packets originated--your assertion, and so. . .you're wrong.
    That would have to be one hell of a sysadmin, lmao.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    I read it, and nowhere in that article does it say how the sys admin of the network under attack can trace the geographic origin of a TCP SYN flood, and that's what you claimed in your post.

    It only states that the ISPs of the residences where there are botnet infected PCs can determine if these attacks are originating from their members' PCs., which is already known.



    WRONG. The ISPs who provide Internet service to the owners of the botnet-infected computers can determine the precise location of the attacks since they can examine the MAC address of the transporting ethernet packets hitting their routers, and the MAC addresses trace back to customer cable modems.

    What is not possible is for a sys admin of a network under a TCP SYN flood attack to track down the ISPs where the TCP SYN packets originated--your assertion, and so. . .you're wrong.
    Okay, I'll inform the folks working at our NOC that they have been wrong all these years and solletica says so. Our ISPs might want to hear that news as well. Man, a lot of us are going to be out of jobs.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    in spite of the fact that ex. perts in computer security have repeatedly denied that NK could be culprit.

    Hence, the conservative mindset: "I believe whatever the US govt. tells me--it's the Divine Truth, even if it contradicts the statements of experts."[/QUOTE]
    You do realize that quite a few experts work for the FBI don't you.
    What we have here is one group of experts who have seen all the evidence saying and another group of experts who have not seen all of the evidence saying something else.
    Only time will tell who is right but let's not pretend this is something other than what it is.

    That is if you can keep your partisanship in check long enough.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    You do realize that quite a few experts work for the FBI don't you.
    What we have here is one group of experts who have seen all the evidence saying and another group of experts who have not seen all of the evidence saying something else.
    Only time will tell who is right but let's not pretend this is something other than what it is.

    That is if you can keep your partisanship in check long enough.
    Actually you have the FBI experts saying it did come from NK and a few outside experts saying maybe it did, maybe it didn't, we don't know because we don't have all the data, AND you have a whole bunch of armchair computer experts outstanding in their living rooms saying it didn't.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    in spite of the fact that ex. perts in computer security have repeatedly denied that NK could be culprit.

    Hence, the conservative mindset: "I believe whatever the US govt. tells me--it's the Divine Truth, even if it contradicts the statements of experts."
    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    You do realize that quite a few experts work for the FBI don't you.
    Those experts don't speak on the FBI's behalf--the director and/or the attorney general does, and those (latter) people can easily lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    What we have here is one group of experts who have seen all the evidence saying and another group of experts who have not seen all of the evidence saying something else.
    No, what we have are statements from the US govt's spokespeople vs. statements from independent computer security experts.

    And those independent folks have much more credibility since they don't have a reputation of repeatedly lying like the US govt.

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Okay, I'll inform the folks working at our NOC that they have been wrong all these years and solletica says so. Our ISPs might want to hear that news as well. Man, a lot of us are going to be out of jobs.
    No they won't--the standards for basic run-of-the-mill sys admins is pretty low--most don't even know what a TCP SYN packet is

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    Re: NK did not hack sony, according to security experts

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    No they won't--the standards for basic run-of-the-mill sys admins is pretty low--most don't even know what a TCP SYN packet is
    Yeah right, the NOCs are overflowing with basic run of the mill types who don't know what you do. I'd agree with you where it comes to ISP sysadmins though.
    Last edited by clownboy; 12-29-14 at 11:14 PM.

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