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Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol[W:649]

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

How is this breaking news?

People destroy and vandalize nativity scenes all the time.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Unrepresented may have had other limitations in mind, not the simple infringements you mention.
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It's possible, but my personal opinion is that rights are limited only in that in the exercise thereof you may not infringe upon the rights of others. It's an ideal, of course, and not always practically observed. But I think things would run a lot smoother if we adhered a bit more to it.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

joko104 said:
How is this breaking news?

People destroy and vandalize nativity scenes all the time.
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And they should also be punished for vandalism.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Where are these 'limitations' you mentioned? Can you be specific?
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Are you asking Constitutionally or in case law?
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

beefheart said:
Different subject. Because posters are talking about this doesn't' mean they can't talk about other things. Opinions are not mutually exclusive to one subject.

Your post has nothing to do with this subject and adds nothing to the discussion.
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I seriously doubt those who would argue for Satanism would ever initiate a conversation advocating the killing of police officers. This topic has veered from religion to the Founding Fathers but mention the connection between evil, represented by Satan, and the call for the murder of innocents and the usuals get rather defensive.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Unrepresented said:
Are you asking Constitutionally or in case law?
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You said "There are limitations to religious freedom".

Who decides either way on what these restrictions might be?
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
I seriously doubt those who would argue for Satanism would ever initiate a conversation advocating the killing of police officers. This topic has veered from religion to the Founding Fathers but mention the connection between evil, represented by Satan, and the call for the murder of innocents and the usuals get rather defensive.
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Now you are off into reading the minds of satanists about killing cops.

Has nothing to do with anything, and it is superflouous to this thread.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
I seriously doubt those who would argue for Satanism would ever initiate a conversation advocating the killing of police officers. This topic has veered from religion to the Founding Fathers but mention the connection between evil, represented by Satan, and the call for the murder of innocents and the usuals get rather defensive.
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Very few here are actually arguing for satanism, but rather the first amendment. You would likely get the same responses if it was a shrine to vishnu, buddha, thor, jesus, whoever as the primary problem is not religious, but vandalism.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
You said "There are limitations to religious freedom. Your own religion disagreeing with someone else's religion isn't one of them".

Which were you referring to?
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Religious freedom generally has to be in compliance with the law -- i.e. polygamy isn't available for Mormons even though it's historically associated with the church.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

tacomancer said:
Very few here are actually arguing for satanism, but rather the first amendment. You would likely get the same responses if it was a shrine to vishnu, buddha, thor, jesus, whoever as the primary problem is not religious, but vandalism.
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Yes. and everyone agrees that vandalism was uncalled for. There is no debate there. But as Satanism is the religion under discussion it can lead to some interesting debate. Satanism has always been opposed by Christians, with their recognition that evil exists in this world, so the confrontation between the two traditional antagonists can be quite interesting.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Yes. and everyone agrees that vandalism was uncalled for. There is no debate there. But as Satanism is the religion under discussion it can lead to some interesting debate. Satanism has always been opposed by Christians, with their recognition that evil exists in this world, so the confrontation between the two traditional antagonists can be quite interesting.
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thats not a civil issue though, thats a cultural one and has no place in this context. In this context, religious displays are allowed at the state capital.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Unrepresented said:
So anyone who hasn't filed a lawsuit on behalf of the 2nd amendment is a communist, according to your highly developed understanding of economic positions?
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I'm saying that any organization that openly lies to public saying they support the Constituion and the Bill of Rights---when they most certainly do not----are dishonest.

An organization that was founded by communists, was found to be a pro-communist organization by the government, and spent decades defending communists and communist ideals---are most likely a communist front.

Just as a lawyer for the mob will defend his mob bosses. They are rightly called "Mafia Lawyers."

Communists don't hate guns, they want guns only in the hands of their own: government and police and revolutionaries.

What's your position on gun control???
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Unrepresented said:
Religious freedom generally has to be in compliance with the law -- i.e. polygamy isn't available for Mormons even though it's historically associated with the church.
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Polygamy has become allowed because of Islam and other relaxations of the traditional marriage laws. All cultures must decide, or have it decided for them, what they want to keep and what they want to leave behind. We are seeing that flux across the Christian world today and, apart from some vague generalities, most have no idea what will replace these traditions.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

tacomancer said:
thats not a civil issue though, thats a cultural one and has no place in this context. In this context, religious displays are allowed at the state capital.
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Do you want to limit the conversation only to whether the vandalism was right or wrong? If so the debate will die rather quickly because it seems everyone agrees it was wrong. Rather than kill it, why not just ignore it?
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Do you want to limit the conversation only to whether the vandalism was right or wrong? If so the debate will die rather quickly because it seems everyone agrees it was wrong. Rather than kill it, why not just ignore it?
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Multiple people on this thread have suggested that this woman not be punished for committing a crime, instead claiming that she should get a medal or just get off scott free by having a prosecutor ignore it

So there is a debate even on that very basic subject.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

paddymcdougall said:
At this point, we are totally off-topic for the op.

Here is ACLU's stance re 2nd amendment (which has plenty of groups to defend it, it doesn't need the ACLU, but here is their position):
FAQs | ACLU of Ohio


They have, though, defended the free speech of 2nd amendment supporters -
https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-files-suit-protect-free-speech-rights-second-amendment-advocate

You are wrong, sir, to say that the ACLU and I do not support the constitution and bill of rights. Agreeing or disagreeing with some of the positions of communists doesn't make me a communist anymore than agreeing or disagreeing with some of the positions of the republican party makes me republican. (If you look at the mid-50s Republican plank, I actually agree with most of it. Yet I'm not a republican). But yes, I agree with a graduated income tax; that people should all work if they are able; that kids should have a free education and that we shouldn't allow child labor; and that "waste lands" should be rehabilitated and put to use - perhaps as parks, perhaps as farmland. Makes sense - if we have ruined the soil, we should repair it. And I am in favor of inheritance taxes. Call me whatever label you like; will have no impact on me because I value your opinion not at all at this point.

And now I will no longer veer this far off-topic on this thread. I apologize to all I have offended by going off-topic.
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I've seen their statement. Typical leftist crap.

I am correct that they have never lifted a finger to denfend the right itself. Talking about it in a ACLU pow-wow is not defending it in court. The ACLU will defend about anyone for "freedom of what they think freedom of speech is"---even the NRA. But of course they won't defend a government of the people, by the people and for the people to have religious displays.

So at the very least you are only 1/2 communist (adding in central banking). I am fortunately only 1/10 communist at the most.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:
I'm saying that any organization that openly lies to public saying they support the Constituion and the Bill of Rights---when they most certainly do not----are dishonest.

An organization that was founded by communists, was found to be a pro-communist organization by the government, and spent decades defending communists and communist ideals---are most likely a communist front.

Just as a lawyer for the mob will defend his mob bosses. They are rightly called "Mafia Lawyers."

Communists don't hate guns, they want guns only in the hands of their own: government and police and revolutionaries.

What's your position on gun control???
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Not actively supporting every nuance of the Bill of Rights makes a group a communist enterprise?

You're recklessly throwing around "communist" in a discussion that still has nothing to do with economics.
Grant said:
Polygamy has become allowed because of Islam and other relaxations of the traditional marriage laws. All cultures must decide, or have it decided for them, what they want to keep and what they want to leave behind. We are seeing that flux across the Christian world today and, apart from some vague generalities, most have no idea what will replace these traditions.
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Are you discussing US law or internationally? I'm going by US law, since that's where I live and am most familiar with. Polygamy is still not legal or recognized domestically.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Yes. and everyone agrees that vandalism was uncalled for. There is no debate there. But as Satanism is the religion under discussion it can lead to some interesting debate. Satanism has always been opposed by Christians, with their recognition that evil exists in this world, so the confrontation between the two traditional antagonists can be quite interesting.
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So......don't be a satanist, all your problems are over.

But they have the same right as other religions that are displaying things. If you let one religion display, you need to let all display, otherwise it isn't freedom of religion...is it?
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Do you want to limit the conversation only to whether the vandalism was right or wrong? If so the debate will die rather quickly because it seems everyone agrees it was wrong. Rather than kill it, why not just ignore it?
Click to expand...

Most have said it was wrong, a couple maybe have said it was OK or that the woman should get a medal.

But yeah, I mean there isn't really much to this topic. One cannot run around vandalizing these displays, regardless or religion or motivation.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Unrepresented said:
If you're making up figures, we're going to have even more trouble having an adult conversation with you already making up definitions too.
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Then what percent of the time is the ACLU siding against Christians?
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

matchlight said:
I think the office involved--the state A.G., the county D.A., or whatever--should just decline to prosecute this woman.
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It is a good thing then that those people will choose to uphold the law instead of your biased feelings.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:
I've seen their statement. Typical leftist crap.

I am correct that they have never lifted a finger to denfend the right itself. Talking about it in a ACLU pow-wow is not defending it in court. The ACLU will defend about anyone for "freedom of what they think freedom of speech is"---even the NRA. But of course they won't defend a government of the people, by the people and for the people to have religious displays.
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The ACLU Is Not Evil | Christianity Today


For example, in 2001, the group interceded with a school district in Michigan that had deleted a high school senior's yearbook entry because she included a Bible verse. In 2002, the ACLU filed a brief on behalf of a pastor associated with Operation Rescue who was prevented from participating in a parade because his pro-life poster showed a photograph of an aborted baby. And last September, the organization joined a lawsuit on behalf of a New Jersey second-grader who was not allowed to sing "Awesome God" in a school talent show. (All of these examples are easily accessible on several Web pages now devoted to defending the ACLU 's record on Christianity.)
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oh look, its the ACLU defending religious displays at a government institution.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/July/Pro-Gay-Marriage-ACLU-Defends-Chick-fil-A/

The American Civil Liberties Union, which supports gay rights and other liberal issues, recently said the restaurant should not be discriminated against for its words and opinions.

Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy has publicly stated his belief in God and the biblical definition of marriage as between a man and a woman.

Following his comments, Boston Mayor Thomas Menino and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said they plan to protest by banning Chick-fil-A restaurants in their cities.

Menino has since backed off the idea, but the ACLU warned other government leaders not to join in the type of threats the mayors made
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oh look its the ACLU defending christians in a private business setting.
 
Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

beefheart said:
So......don't be a satanist, all your problems are over.

But they have the same right as other religions that are displaying things. If you let one religion display, you need to let all display, otherwise it isn't freedom of religion...is it?
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Nowhere did I call for an end to Satanists right to worship. They are certainly ignorant but trying to stamp out ignorance is also a futile task.

Nonetheless, you do have a flair for the banal.
 
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