Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol[W:649]

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

I think the office involved--the state A.G., the county D.A., or whatever--should just decline to prosecute this woman.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Ikari said:

Yes, and allowed it, FYI.

But no, you're wrong. Allowing Satanists their say does not mean that Christians dont get their say. That's just stupid. Freedom means everyone has the same rights and abilities, just because you do not like a message doesn't mean that you cannot state your own or get to silence it. That would be the opposite of freedom.

So it seems you are rooted firmly in religious tyranny. To which I would say, that's why we have a secular government.

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I feel that each community has the right to decide on their own, and without the Feds sticking their nose into it, what displays they want on their school, streets and courthouses.

That's called real freedom. Something you have no tolerance for.

If a gay-lesbo community wants to have a pro-gay display on the the lawn of their city hall, and most citizens of the community are gays---then let them---as long as it isn't too graphic.

If a city populated by Black supremacists wants to allow violent gangs and thugs to run wild and burn down their own city---then the citizens there should bear the consequences mainly on their own.

So, if a majority Christian city or county does not want satanic or atheistic displays on their turf, then anti-freedom types like you and the ACLU should not be allowed to butt in.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

I feel that each community has the right to decide on their own, and without the Feds sticking their nose into it, what displays they want on their school, streets and courthouses.

That's called real freedom. Something you have no tolerance for.

If a gay-lesbo community wants to have a pro-gay display on the the lawn of their city hall, and most citizens of the community are gays---then let them---as long as it isn't too graphic.

If a city populated by Black supremacists wants to allow violent gangs and thugs to run wild and burn down their own city---then the citizens there should bear the consequences mainly on their own.

So, if a majority Christian city or county does not want satanic or atheistic displays on their turf, then anti-freedom types like you and the ACLU should not be allowed to butt in.

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luckily the founders were smarter than that.

WIKIPEDIA said:

The phrase "tyranny of the majority" (or "tyranny of the masses"), used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, involves the scenario in which decisions made by a majority place its interests above those of an individual or minority group, constituting active oppression comparable to that of tyrants and despots. In many cases a disliked ethnic, religious or racial group is deliberately penalized by the majority element acting through the democratic process.

Supermajority rules, constitutional limits on the powers of a legislative body, and the introduction of a Bill of Rights have been used to counter the problem. A separation of powers may also be implemented to prevent the problem from happening internally in a government.

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But if you consider real freedom to be the ability to oppress ideas or group you dislike, then I guess the concept of freedom is lost on you.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

matchlight said:

I think the office involved--the state A.G., the county D.A., or whatever--should just decline to prosecute this woman.

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So another vote against religious freedom.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

Thank you for your info. Given that about 90% of the time the ACLU defends communists over Nazis and Jehovah's Witnessess, and that they similarly go after Christians using the poor excuse of seperation of church and state---the ACLU would be 90% pro-communist.

As you support the actions of the ACLU---one could determine a similar content in your political agenda.

If you only have the ridiculous, narrow view that real communism is only about economic totalitarian issues, then no, you would not be a true communist.

However, if you support the majority of communist tenets, then it would be fair to assume one is mostly a communist.

BTW, which of the 10 tenets of communism do you not support?

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A) citation needed regarding 90% of ACLU cases "defending communists."

B) You either didn't read or didn't comprehend the "association fallacy" link I included because your post is still limited to that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

C) the separation of church and state is hardly a "poor excuse" considering the wins the ACLU has made using it.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

I feel that each community has the right to decide on their own, and without the Feds sticking their nose into it, what displays they want on their school, streets and courthouses.

That's called real freedom. Something you have no tolerance for.

If a gay-lesbo community wants to have a pro-gay display on the the lawn of their city hall, and most citizens of the community are gays---then let them---as long as it isn't too graphic.

If a city populated by Black supremacists wants to allow violent gangs and thugs to run wild and burn down their own city---then the citizens there should bear the consequences mainly on their own.

So, if a majority Christian city or county does not want satanic or atheistic displays on their turf, then anti-freedom types like you and the ACLU should not be allowed to butt in.

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Local governments get a lot more leeway, but what you want to do is to silence people you don't like. Hell, your argument would allow.localized slavery, fed should stay oit, yes? That's not freedom, you have no tolerance for real freedom.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Hari Seldon said:

Who is "We"? Truth be told I don't need you either. You don't even know me other than by some posts on a forum. How exactly "am I part of the problem"? To give you information I am Jewish although non practicing and consider myself agnostic. Not sure about the existence of God other than knowing you and yours sure as hell don't know either. My wife is Catholic and my 2 kids were raised Catholic but neither is religious. They can make up their own mind as far as I'm concerned. I'm a CPA (yea we are truly evil) and my wife is a college professor. I am "white" while she is "black" which means our kids have much better protection from the sun than I do. SPF50 for me and a cap. I consider those that need to force their religious beliefs on others to be "part of the problem".

Happy Holidays.

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Now I too can see the problem, you are just normal, well other than the CPA bit, but I must say that antlers on the dog is just evil. Hope you and your beautiful family have a Happy and joy filled new year.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Kal'Stang said:

These "Satanists" are not a religion. They are atheists posing as Satanists in order to provoke Christians. Even their own website has the exact stance of an extreme atheist described in it. No matter what they or anyone else says that is all that they are.

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What difference does it make what they are?

Such actions should not be allowed as it creates unrest and does not lead to a peaceful society.

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Because some people are stupid and intolerant or their faith is too weak?

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Ikari said:

So another vote against religious freedom.

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What do you mean by that? Who, other than yourself, set you up as the sole arbiter of the boundaries of religious freedom in the U.S.? Any time you want to debate anything about First Amendment religious freedoms with me, come ahead.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

matchlight said:

What do you mean by that? Who, other than yourself, set you up as the sole arbiter of the boundaries of religious freedom in the U.S.? Any time you want to debate anything about First Amendment religious freedoms with me, come ahead.

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You're willing to excuse force and crime against free expression of religion. How does that make you within boundaries of freedom? I fear the intolerant type don't quite understand the full ramifications of freedom.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

Thank you for your info. Given that about 90% of the time the ACLU defends communists over Nazis and Jehovah's Witnessess, and that they similarly go after Christians using the poor excuse of seperation of church and state---the ACLU would be 90% pro-communist.

As you support the actions of the ACLU---one could determine a similar content in your political agenda.

If you only have the ridiculous, narrow view that real communism is only about economic totalitarian issues, then no, you would not be a true communist.

However, if you support the majority of communist tenets, then it would be fair to assume one is mostly a communist.

BTW, which of the 10 tenets of communism do you not support?

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Gad, are you a reincarnation of Joe McCarthy, seeing communists behind every tree? As much as you accuse others of being communist, my only conclusion can be that you are throwing up a smoke screen to hide the fact that YOU are the communists.

I do support the ACLU. I don't care if they defend communists or tea partiers because they are always defending our constitution.

People who love to label other people are tedious. You love to label other people.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

matchlight said:

I think the office involved--the state A.G., the county D.A., or whatever--should just decline to prosecute this woman.

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Ikari said:

So another vote against religious freedom.

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matchlight said:

What do you mean by that? Who, other than yourself, set you up as the sole arbiter of the boundaries of religious freedom in the U.S.? Any time you want to debate anything about First Amendment religious freedoms with me, come ahead.

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Count me in with Ikari as saying you voted against religious freedom when you said the woman who vandalized an exhibit shouldn't be prosecuted.

UNLESS you say anyone who vandalizes any exhibit shouldn't be prosecuted.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Ikari said:

You're willing to excuse force and crime against free expression of religion. How does that make you within boundaries of freedom? I fear you intolerant type don't quite understand the full ramifications of freedom.

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I don't give a damn what you fear. Keep insulting me personally, and I will report you.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

matchlight said:

I don't give a damn what you fear. Keep insulting me personally, and I will report you.

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Is that all you got? I came at you with an argument from rights, and the best you have is "I will report you"? Poor show. How about instead of intolerant arguments, you make one based on rights and liberties? Says a lot for your arguments if you cannot counter with anything other than deflection.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

countryboy said:

And the idiotic satanists suffered the consequences. Your point?

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Actually the consequence was suffered only by the stupid intolerant woman.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Grant said:

I'll be curious to see if these Satanists show up at Ramadan.

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Will there be a "Ramadan display" and if so what is it usually?

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

tacomancer said:

luckily the founders were smarter than that.



But if you consider real freedom to be the ability to oppress ideas or group you dislike, then I guess the concept of freedom is lost on you.

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Most reasonable people, like the Founders, even the one's who weren't all that Christian, didn't feel threatened by a Christmas tree or a nativity scene on steps of the local city hall.

Tyrannical Leftists are of course going to dislike them.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

Most reasonable people, like the Founders, even the one's who weren't all that Christian, didn't feel threatened by a Christmas tree or a nativity scene on steps of the local city hall.

Tyrannical Leftists are of course going to dislike them.

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yeah, i don't see the founders tearing up random stuff...

they were more civilized than that lady

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

paddymcdougall said:

Count me in with Ikari as saying you voted against religious freedom when you said the woman who vandalized an exhibit shouldn't be prosecuted.

UNLESS you say anyone who vandalizes any exhibit shouldn't be prosecuted.

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I don't believe anything in the First Amendment requires any government to recognize any nonsense at all as a religion. The notion that we have to let every bunch of nuts that comes down the pike do whatever they please, in the name of tolerance, is crap. The fact is these nuts are hostile to Christianity and pull stunts like this one as part of a strategy of purging it from this country's public life through intimidation. They get some lawyer and threaten to sue if their demands are not met, and all too often, the locals lose their guts and give in to the threat, rather than spend the money to fight it out in court.

The Supreme Court's decisions on religious displays in public places are complex and not particularly coherent, but they make clear that not every single group that claims to be religious has to be accommodated, in every situation. Pleasant Grove City, Utah, v. Summum, for example, a 2009 decision, concerned the right of the Summum religion to put up in a city park a monument containing the "Seven Aphorisms of Summum." The monument was to be similar physically to a monument containing the Ten Commandments that the Fraternal Order of Eagles had put up in the park several decades earlier.

Pleasant Grove didn't want the damned thing in its park--and it got its way. The Court held that the city's decisions about which monuments to accept for display in the park were government speech, and as such not a First Amendment concern. The city was free to accept or reject a private monument for display as it pleased, as long as it could not reasonably be seen as endorsing a religion by accepting a particular monument.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

Most reasonable people, like the Founders, even the one's who weren't all that Christian, didn't feel threatened by a Christmas tree or a nativity scene on steps of the local city hall.

Tyrannical Leftists are of course going to dislike them.

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Though it seems that perhaps you feel threatened by a Satanic display. Why else would you be defending the vandalism of this disay so much?

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Ikari said:

Local governments get a lot more leeway, but what you want to do is to silence people you don't like. Hell, your argument would allow.localized slavery, fed should stay oit, yes? That's not freedom, you have no tolerance for real freedom.

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Is that the best you can do? Slavery? Really? Excuse me, but what other nation besides the USA was more free back in 1787?

Hold the Founders and early Americans to the same standards next time.

And you want to silence Christianity with your phoney serperation of church and state arguments.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

paddymcdougall said:

Gad, are you a reincarnation of Joe McCarthy, seeing communists behind every tree? As much as you accuse others of being communist, my only conclusion can be that you are throwing up a smoke screen to hide the fact that YOU are the communists.

I do support the ACLU. I don't care if they defend communists or tea partiers because they are always defending our constitution.

People who love to label other people are tedious. You love to label other people.

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If you support the ACLU then you don't support the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. The second-most important individual right, the 2nd Amendment, has never, ever been defended by the ACLU. Radical Liberals and communists have no real tolerance for such rights.

Let's see who is the most communist. How many of the 10 tenets of Communism do you support?

I only support the idea of a Central Bank with a state currency.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

Flamethrower said:

Is that the best you can do? Slavery? Really? Excuse me, but what other nation besides the USA was more free back in 1787?

Hold the Founders and early Americans to the same standards next time.

And you want to silence Christianity with your phoney serperation of church and state arguments.

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I am not looking to silence Christianity. At no point have I said they couldn't be allowed a display or allowed their expression. Please, let's leave hysterics out of this. And I just used your argument, nothing more. Of course its poor, your fundamental argument was poor. The truth is that while local governments get a lot of leeway, they still cannot infringe upon the rights of the individual. You cannot forbid religious expression merely because you don't like the expression.

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

polgara said:

Since we only have to give account for what we do, I'm okay with that! :thumbs:

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Doesn't that also include 'what we fail to do' that potentially being just as important?

Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

j-mac said:

Can the other religions ask for space to erect their displays? I think as referenced by the fact that Satanists had a display, the answer would be yes. Also, I don't think that Jews, or Muslims are offended by a nativity scene either....In fact I think the only ones offended by a nativity scene, are the less than 1% of people that don't believe in ****, and want to force everyone else to see it their way, or rain on their day. Miserable people really.

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And so now you're back to making your dishonest claim that someone is offended even though you can't identify anyone who is actually offended.

I, on the other hand, can point to people who are offended by a religious display on public property:

The butt hurt xtians who want to force everyone else to see it their way...miserable people really