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Thread: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol[W:649]

  1. #701
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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    As long as the school staff don't try to pray or lead the students in prayer. The ACLU and Lib courts have stripped these citizens of their rights.

    I guess the staff should have no religious rights. Do you think public schools should be ran by Big Brother, or the local citizens?
    They should be ran according to the constitution

    Also staff and officials are free to pray or lead in prayer so long as its understood they are doing so as individuals and there is no institutional backing. Prayer at the flag pole is a thing at many schools for example.

    Your community standards argument does not override the constitution

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    As long as the school staff don't try to pray or lead the students in prayer. The ACLU and Lib courts have stripped these citizens of their rights.

    I guess the staff should have no religious rights. Do you think public schools should be ran by Big Brother, or the local citizens?
    The staff can pray - to themselves - any time they want. Go for it, staff! pray away! "I pray this day ends without me killing any students" (smile)

    But no, they cannot lead students in prayer.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    What if the members of the infant-sacrifice cult in my example claimed that being denied a display in the public square was an unfair limitation to their religious freedom--that it was nothing but a case of someone else's religion disagreeing with their own "religion?" I take your "Well duh" to mean you think the answers in these cases are glaringly obvious to anyone who's not as dim as me, so I suppose they should just call on you to interpret the First Amendment for them.
    Any infant-sacrifice cult - if they actually did that - would be in jail for murder. If they had a display showing infants being sacrificed - they would be in jail for murder as well.

    If someone wants to advocate sacrificing infants - I'm not sure what the penalty is for advocating murder without actually doing it.

    Pretty sure their religion would only be popular with parents of toddlers (that was a joke, everyone!)

    I believe Indian tribes who wanted to smoke peyote as part of their religious rituals were not allowed to do so.

    I personally find the pictures that anti-choicers like to wave around repugnant; but legally they are allowed to show them. I also find the videos of ISIS beheading people repugnant, but they are legal to show.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    As long as the school staff don't try to pray or lead the students in prayer. The ACLU and Lib courts have stripped these citizens of their rights.

    I guess the staff should have no religious rights. Do you think public schools should be ran by Big Brother, or the local citizens?
    They have the same religious rights as everyone else.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    As long as the school staff don't try to pray or lead the students in prayer. The ACLU and Lib courts have stripped these citizens of their rights.

    I guess the staff should have no religious rights. Do you think public schools should be ran by Big Brother, or the local citizens?
    Hardly, nobody can possibly be stopped from praying quietly to themselves. The only thing the courts have done is stopped these people from making a public spectacle. Anyone can pray, any time they want. They just aren't allowed to use it to cause peer pressure on others.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I mean, if you're actually going to sacrifice an infant, sure. Did this display include the the sacrifice of infants?
    I made the answer to that clear by saying "a public display depicting one of its rituals." A typical creche, for example, depicts the stable at Bethlehem with the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary, various animals, etc. Why not a graphic depiction of goats and chickens having their throats slit and the blood pouring out, or a model of a volcano with some heathens throwing a virgin girl to her death, or a portrayal of jihadist savages sawing off the head of some unbeliever to celebrate their fervent religious belief that slaughtering unbelievers is Allah's will, or any other damned disgusting thing you can imagine? It may be hard to get more vile and depraved than Devil-worship, but shouldn't we try?

    This country was founded by English Protestants, and their values are embedded in our laws and traditions. Our Constitution, to some extent, reflects the beliefs of those founders about how best to foster a civil society. The notion that anything in the Constitution requires Americans to sacrifice their own culture and customs to celebrate everyone else's, all in the name of complete tolerance of every foreign or bizarre trend, no matter how repugnant to our way of life it may be, is very recent in our history. It is also very stupid and self-destructive. As a Supreme Court justice once noted, the Constitution was not a suicide pact.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Why not a graphic depiction of goats and chickens having their throats slit and the blood pouring out, or a model of a volcano with some heathens throwing a virgin girl to her death, or a portrayal of jihadist savages sawing off the head of some unbeliever to celebrate their fervent religious belief that slaughtering unbelievers is Allah's will, or any other damned disgusting thing you can imagine?
    Was that the case?
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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Next time try with something rational, plausible and legal.
    That's not an argument, but just a peevish, condescending wisecrack. Next time, come ahead--try to match your reasoning ability and knowledge against mine, on this or any other matter of First Amendment law.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    So, you can't answer yes or no without a qualifier. This isn't a should or shouldn't case...the goat is out of the barn, it happened.
    Was that the challenge?? Yes or no without a qualifier?

    You should give the rules before the game starts!

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I made the answer to that clear by saying "a public display depicting one of its rituals." A typical creche, for example, depicts the stable at Bethlehem with the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary, various animals, etc. Why not a graphic depiction of goats and chickens having their throats slit and the blood pouring out, or a model of a volcano with some heathens throwing a virgin girl to her death, or a portrayal of jihadist savages sawing off the head of some unbeliever to celebrate their fervent religious belief that slaughtering unbelievers is Allah's will, or any other damned disgusting thing you can imagine? It may be hard to get more vile and depraved than Devil-worship, but shouldn't we try?

    This country was founded by English Protestants, and their values are embedded in our laws and traditions. Our Constitution, to some extent, reflects the beliefs of those founders about how best to foster a civil society. The notion that anything in the Constitution requires Americans to sacrifice their own culture and customs to celebrate everyone else's, all in the name of complete tolerance of every foreign or bizarre trend, no matter how repugnant to our way of life it may be, is very recent in our history. It is also very stupid and self-destructive. As a Supreme Court justice once noted, the Constitution was not a suicide pact.
    The crucifix is pretty awful and bloody. It's legal.

    Heck, a lot of religious art is pretty awful in terms of violence, stabbings, blood, etc. Should we ban it? or is it allowed as long as it's christian imagery?

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