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Thread: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol[W:649]

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So what are the Satanists celebrating during Christmas?
    That they aren't dumb enough to be christians.....

    (that was a joke, people!)

    I don't know about any particular satanist, but as an atheist I celebrate family, friends, good will and joy during christmas.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, it is optional but obviously 'un-secular' as well.
    What are you ( trying to state here? Because an American wishes to use the phrase "So help me god" in an affirmation oath as a member of the military, a government employee or a member of Congress, such actions do not have the meaning that every person has to say the phrase - it is optional (I think I said that already)

    There's that little bit in the Constitution, written before the Bill of Rights by the way
    "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States".
    Although eight states still have clauses or provisions in their state constitutions that say public officials must believe in a Supreme Being, they are no longer enforced.

    Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)
    Appellant was appointed by the Governor of Maryland to the office of Notary Public, but he was denied a commission because he would not declare his belief in God, as required by the Maryland Constitution. Claiming that this requirement violated his rights under the First and Fourteenth Amendments, he sued in a state court to compel issuance of his commission, but relief was denied
    We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against nonbelievers, [Footnote 10] and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs. [Footnote 11]

    In upholding the State's religious test for public office, the highest court of Maryland said:

    "The petitioner is not compelled to believe or disbelieve, under threat of punishment or other compulsion. True, unless he makes the declaration of belief, he cannot hold public office in Maryland, but he is not compelled to hold office."

    The fact, however, that a person is not compelled to hold public office cannot possibly be an excuse for barring him from office by state-imposed criteria forbidden by the Constitution.
    my emphasis
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I believe it is called "the establishment clause". And is called that because the founders were fleeing a religiously run government in England. The way you term it as "the non establishment clause" you are consciously inferring a freedom from religion, when in fact it is the exact opposite.

    Now for the record, and as a Christian, raised Roman Catholic, since lapsed, I don't really have an objection to people displaying what they want, as long as we can all respect each others right to believe what we want....That word "respect" goes further than just me allowing non believers to be assholes to those that believe, and vice versa. It means not doing things specifically to disrespect what others celebrate as holy to them....I doubt truly that Satinists do what they do with any respect at all, so in my eyes they don't deserve such.
    Can't have an of when you don't have a from... It covers both. It's sets a very clear boundary for religion. Religion as a "legally recognized control" is the reason in the clause for religion as you say: none can control another. Neither can any "legally" control a man. That is the freedom from religion.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    That they aren't dumb enough to be christians.....

    (that was a joke, people!)

    I don't know about any particular satanist, but as an atheist I celebrate family, friends, good will and joy during christmas.
    Well, stick to your thoughts, because your jokes aren't very funny...

    So, you're not very different from Christians then...But, if all you wanted to do was celebrate family, friends, good will and joy, then why would you need a display designed to antagonize others? Is that "good will"?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who taught you this?
    That means nothing, its not how government is allowed to act. An oath, that's all you got? Government is not allowed to establish or interfere with the free expression of religion. Government is secular. You can have your little addendum to an oath, but i have the 1st amendment.

    Talk about needing to learn a lesson.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, stick to your thoughts, because your jokes aren't very funny...

    So, you're not very different from Christians then...But, if all you wanted to do was celebrate family, friends, good will and joy, then why would you need a display designed to antagonize others? Is that "good will"?
    Why would you need any display at all, since it might offend others too?
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Can't have an of when you don't have a from... It covers both. It's sets a very clear boundary for religion. Religion as a "legally recognized control" is the reason in the clause for religion as you say: none can control another. Neither can any "legally" control a man. That is the freedom from religion.
    The only freedom from is contextually in religion being entangled in government in a way that dictates legislation. Your argument is one that would banish any religion from the public square period, and that is not what was intended.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Why would you need any display at all, since it might offend others too?

    I am not saying that I do. But, I don't understand what is so offensive? Maybe you can explain?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Can't have an of when you don't have a from... It covers both. It's sets a very clear boundary for religion. Religion as a "legally recognized control" is the reason in the clause for religion as you say: none can control another. Neither can any "legally" control a man. That is the freedom from religion.
    Actually, you can't have from, if you have of. There is no freedom from religion, there's a church on practically block in America, sometimes two or three.

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    Re: Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Why would you need any display at all, since it might offend others too?
    Why would anyone be offended by a nativity scene? Serious question.

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