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Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

gdgyva said:
show me a shooting like that......

with hands in pocket, and zero threatening moves

and no one reporting a weapon being brandished

and i will be on your side.......

again.....never said cops were perfect.....

is there a shooting like that? if so, was the officer brought up on charges?

if not, what were the extenuating circumstances that havent been said?
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The John Crawford video is as close as I can get. He just turned.
 
paddymcdougall said:
I bolded part of your statement; THAT part makes it sound like you are for executions with no trial.

Most of us think people need a trial; that cops shouldn't get to decide who is a thug and should die and who shouldn't. Due process is a very important part of our constitution and laws.

And how do you know if society is better off without him? What a judgement to make about someone that young. Do people never change in your opinion (if he actually was a criminal now)?
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Please post a link to your expressing concern for the old black fella who was beat up, if you are claiming you give a damn about what happens to African-Americans.

Of am I accurate that really you don't give a damn and your messages are just chanting what you are told to chant?
 
Tettsuo said:
wow...

Don't know how to even address such a fact-free, and twisted reality post like this.
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not a twisted reality

this is the world we live in today

and if you dont know that, you better learn fast

cops will not play games when they are dealing with people with weapons

it is listen, comply, or end up shot

it really is that simple
 
whysoserious said:
The John Crawford video is as close as I can get. He just turned.
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i have seen the video

what i havent seen or heard is the audio which would help me make my determination one way or the other

on the video he has the weapon on his hands

the cops say they yelled at him to drop the weapon, and get down

did they? i dunno.....i want to believe they did since that is the training every cop gets

instead of dropping it, or getting down, he starts turning....and that is when he is shot

is it a good shoot? again...i "think" so....but unsure because of no audio

that is my opinion....yours may be different

i happen to have 3 good friends that are LE.....and all with 20+ years in

not even they know for sure on that case.......again.....there opinion is nearly mine

we all wish we had audio to make it definitve
 
Tettsuo said:
So the police didn't arrive on the scene until they rolled into view? Is that it?

Come on man... seriously?
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what...you think they hung back until he got up?

then they zoomed in, opened the door, and just murdered another black boy

not biased or anything are you?

why do you detest cops so much? gotta be a story there somewhere
 
gdgyva said:
we all wish we had audio to make it definitve
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I gotta say, I'm not looking to hang these cops or anything. It's a tough decision I'm sure, and I'm also sure they must feel absolutely terrible when they find out in each of these cases that the person was holding a toy. My point is, it seems to me in both cases procedures could be looked at that would make something like this less likely to happen.

All I know is I'm never buying my kid a bb gun.
 
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Tettsuo said:
So the police didn't arrive on the scene until they rolled into view? Is that it?

Come on man... seriously?
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SO...the cops rolled onto the scene (because...they were called about a man aiming a gun at people)...and they found...what?
A-A poor innocent little boy sitting on a bench and they gunned him down while he was eating a sandwich and a juicebox or
B-The alleged suspect stepping towards them, raising his shirt, and reaching for a weapon

Lets see how honest you are willing to be.
 
whysoserious said:
I gotta say, I'm not looking to hang these cops or anything. It's a tough decision I'm sure, and I'm also sure they must feel absolutely terrible when they find out in each of these cases that the person was holding a toy. My point is, it seems to me in both cases procedures could be looked at that would make something like this less likely to happen.

All I know is I'm never buying my kid a bb gun.
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Go ahead and buy him the BB gun. But before you purchase it, dont take it out of the box and run through WalMart, acting ;ike it is a real gun, threatening people with it and if you DO, at least for the love of all things holy, shout out "DONT WORRY!!! ITS JUST AN UNLOADED TOY BB GUN I TOOK FROM THE BOX HERE AT WALMART!!! IM NOT A REAL THREAT...JUST AN ASSHOLE!!!!!!"

See...had he done that...he probably wouldnt be dead today and you wouldnt be living in fear of buying your kid an otherwise perfectly harmless weapon.
 
VanceMack said:
Go ahead and buy him the BB gun. But before you purchase it, dont take it out of the box and run through WalMart, acting ;ike it is a real gun, threatening people with it and if you DO, at least for the love of all things holy, shout out "DONT WORRY!!! ITS JUST AN UNLOADED TOY BB GUN I TOOK FROM THE BOX HERE AT WALMART!!! IM NOT A REAL THREAT...JUST AN ASSHOLE!!!!!!"

See...had he done that...he probably wouldnt be dead today and you wouldnt be living in fear of buying your kid an otherwise perfectly harmless weapon.
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Wouldn't you think if he did that there would be video of it (is there? I haven't seen it)? As far as I am aware, the witnesses that called the cops recanted their statements that he was being threatening with it.

But, Vance, why does that even matter? I could just as easily call the cops and say you're doing that even if you aren't.

*Edit:

Which is what makes the prospect of "Swatting" so much scarier. How lucky is it that no one has been shot and killed yet?
 
whysoserious said:
Wouldn't you think if he did that there would be video of it (is there? I haven't seen it)? As far as I am aware, the witnesses that called the cops recanted their statements that he was being threatening with it.

But, Vance, why does that even matter? I could just as easily call the cops and say you're doing that even if you aren't.

*Edit:

Which is what makes the prospect of "Swatting" so much scarier. How lucky is it that no one has been shot and killed yet?
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If you called the cops and they rolled up on the scene and it turns out it was exactly as it was called in, and that I WAS in fact running around the store with what was presumed to be a real weapon, I would in fact be ****ed...and deservedly so. If they approached me I dropped the BB gun and ran, THEN rushed to pick it up in the face of law enforcement, I would be double ****ed and DOUBLE deservedly so.

And in the Crawford case...sunovagun...thats precisely what happened. WATCH the video. It has been called in. He is standing in an aisle. He sees cops approach and he drops the weapon and darts around the corner. THEN...he rushes for the weapon with the cops approaching. Is that the video you have seen? That IS what happened.

I dont understand why you cling to this false narrative that he was just a poor little innocent victim that was gunned down for being black in WalMart. The only possible solution is you are intent on being right, even if that means lying about it, or you still simply havent watched the video (which you stated was the case when we initially discussed the shooting). So...have you since seen the actual video?
 
VanceMack said:
If you called the cops and they rolled up on the scene and it turns out it was exactly as it was called in, and that I WAS in fact running around the store with what was presumed to be a real weapon, I would in fact be ****ed...and deservedly so. If they approached me I dropped the BB gun and ran, THEN rushed to pick it up in the face of law enforcement, I would be double ****ed and DOUBLE deservedly so.

And in the Crawford case...sunovagun...thats precisely what happened. WATCH the video. It has been called in. He is standing in an aisle. He sees cops approach and he drops the weapon and darts around the corner. THEN...he rushes for the weapon with the cops approaching. Is that the video you have seen? That IS what happened.

I dont understand why you cling to this false narrative that he was just a poor little innocent victim that was gunned down for being black in WalMart. The only possible solution is you are intent on being right, even if that means lying about it, or you still simply havent watched the video (which you stated was the case when we initially discussed the shooting). So...have you since seen the actual video?
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I didn't see that. I watched the video and to me, it looked like he just turned and then he got shot. Can you take screen shots of that?
 
whysoserious said:
I didn't see that. I watched the video and to me, it looked like he just turned and then he got shot. Can you take screen shots of that?
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Ohio Walmart CCTV captures John Crawford shooting - video | US news | The Guardian

How have you not seen that?

At 22 seconds he drops the gun to the ground and dives around the corner of the aisle. At 26 seconds the officer comes into the frame. At 27 seconds he darts from the corner of the aisle to the gun. At 29 seconds he is on the ground.
 
VanceMack said:
Ohio Walmart CCTV captures John Crawford shooting - video | US news | The Guardian

How have you not seen that?

At 22 seconds he drops the gun to the ground and dives around the corner of the aisle. At 26 seconds the officer comes into the frame. At 27 seconds he darts from the corner of the aisle to the gun. At 29 seconds he is on the ground.
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Oh wow, why in the hell did he dart from the corner to the gun? This was incredibly stupid behavior and completely hard to understand unless he was aiming at "suicide by cop." After seeing this, I actually don't blame the cop. With this kind of behavior, how would the cop NOT think that he was a threat?

Now, the same website has an account of the 911 call and syncs it with the store video. The caller clearly lies and says the suspect is pointing the rifle at two children which he clearly wasn't doing. Then they looked up the caller's background and found abundant evidence of racist behavior, and lying about being an ex-Marine when he enlisted and was thrown out immediately for enlistment fraud. Also, in the confusion that ensued after the shooting a 37-year-old mother of two who was shopping with her two kids died of a heart attack. This 911 caller who embellished it, made up stuff, and lied to the 911 operator has two lives on his hands, and is a lot more to blame than the police.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Oh wow, why in the hell did he dart from the corner to the gun? This was incredibly stupid behavior and completely hard to understand unless he was aiming at "suicide by cop." After seeing this, I actually don't blame the cop. With this kind of behavior, how would the cop NOT think that he was a threat?

Now, the same website has an account of the 911 call and syncs it with the store video. The caller clearly lies and says the suspect is pointing the rifle at two children which he clearly wasn't doing. Then they looked up the caller's background and found abundant evidence of racist behavior, and lying about being an ex-Marine when he enlisted and was thrown out immediately for enlistment fraud. Also, in the confusion that ensued after the shooting a 37-year-old mother of two who was shopping with her two kids died of a heart attack. This 911 caller who embellished it, made up stuff, and lied to the 911 operator has two lives on his hands, and is a lot more to blame than the police.
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certainly something worth checking in on and may warrant charges. Id like to see all the story video tracking his movement from the moment he took the gun out of the box.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Now, the same website has an account of the 911 call and syncs it with the store video. The caller clearly lies and says the suspect is pointing the rifle at two children which he clearly wasn't doing. Then they looked up the caller's background and found abundant evidence of racist behavior, and lying about being an ex-Marine when he enlisted and was thrown out immediately for enlistment fraud. Also, in the confusion that ensued after the shooting a 37-year-old mother of two who was shopping with her two kids died of a heart attack. This 911 caller who embellished it, made up stuff, and lied to the 911 operator has two lives on his hands, and is a lot more to blame than the police.
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I would agree about the 911 caller; they should definitely be charged with something if they did that.
 
VanceMack said:
Ohio Walmart CCTV captures John Crawford shooting - video | US news | The Guardian

How have you not seen that?

At 22 seconds he drops the gun to the ground and dives around the corner of the aisle. At 26 seconds the officer comes into the frame. At 27 seconds he darts from the corner of the aisle to the gun. At 29 seconds he is on the ground.
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Wow, the youtube video I saw must have been terrible (maybe it cut out the part when he got shot??).

Pretty ****ty way to die. He was obviously pretty scared and for good reason.
 
paddymcdougall said:
I would agree about the 911 caller; they should definitely be charged with something if they did that.
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Yes, apparently making false statements to 911 can be punished with a fine and/or some jail time. Not a fitting punishment for something so wrong - that is, lying to 911 explicitly and in purpose to get someone from another race in trouble, if this is indeed what the caller did - which resulted directly and indirectly in the death of two people, but at least it would be a start, to discourage something like this from happening in the future.
 
I'm still puzzled at why he made a dive to this unloaded BB gun. He couldn't have possibly thought that he would defend himself from the police using that gun unloaded, non-lethal (even if loaded) gun. Had he just left the gun behind and remained on the floor without moving, he'd probably be alive.

I mean, after the police got the embellished report from the jerky 911 caller and after seeing this man diving back to recover a gun that looked realistic, I 100% don't blame these cops. I mean, put yourself in their situation - what would they have thought? The suspect is reported (falsely) to have pointed the gun at two children... in spite of being cornered by armed police he makes a dive to try and get the gun back... Probably very close to 100% of any cops facing this kind of situation would have fired their weapons at that point, for self protection and to protect the public.
 
paddymcdougall said:
I would agree about the 911 caller; they should definitely be charged with something if they did that.
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Lol !

VERY Bad idea.

The lingering threat of being charged with a crime everytime you call 911 would just mean less crimes get reported.

You NEED people to report crime. You don't need to threaten them by saying youll could be criminally charged for saying the wrong thing while under duress.
 
Fenton said:
Lol !

VERY Bad idea.

The lingering threat of being charged with a crime everytime you call 911 would just mean less crimes get reported.

You NEED people to report crime. You don't need to threaten them by saying youll could be criminally charged for saying the wrong thing while under duress.
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I do believe you get in trouble if you call 911 for a non-emergency. You should also get in trouble if you call 911 with deliberately false information.

It may be hard to prove, of course, but in this case sounds like it would be easy to prove.
 
Fenton said:
Lol !

VERY Bad idea.

The lingering threat of being charged with a crime everytime you call 911 would just mean less crimes get reported.

You NEED people to report crime. You don't need to threaten them by saying youll could be criminally charged for saying the wrong thing while under duress.
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Very bad idea? Go tell it to legislators, then, because it is *already* in the law books. Deliberately overwhelming emergency systems with false calls or deliberately lying in a 911 call is already a punishable offense with fines and even jail time.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Declan said:
Yes guns should be banned, starting with handguns and readily concealed weapons. Has nothing to do with Hands Up, Don't Shoot. It has to do with the death toll.
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With that chain of thought, when do we start banning cars?
 
Zyphlin said:
This may sound like a good idea and all, and I'm sure you're extremely noble regarding this kind of thing, but I think it's not nearly as simple as you suggest. The reality is there's likely to be a number of such instances where it's not clearly black and white. Even where it is black and white, undoubtably there are still going to be people who complain and simply use it to their advantage.

For example, there are those who are screaming that a cop should NEVER shoot an unarmed person. If a body camera shows a suspect attempting to get the officers gun and physically threatening the officer, it's going to lead some to suggest it was justified (there's reason to say the officer felt that his life was being threatened) while others will scream "See! He was UNARMED!"

Being a sports fan and seeing the vast amount of monday morning quarterbacking...judging situations not based on the context of when and how they were actually happening, but rather judging them with full knowledge of how the situation played out...I just don't trust that somehow we'd see any more true "justice" done by making these kind of things immedietely available for public consumption in an unfiltered sort of way. To me that doesn't create any net fix of issues, it simply fixes some while creating a slew of others.
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Yes, a lethal threat can be recognized (if you're lucky) and carried out in an instant...whether someone has a gun or not they can still be a deadly threat. It's not always possible to 2nd guess that for someone else, what they perceived in that instant.

In 2001 we had a cop killed by a naked guy here. Guy was either mentally ill or on drugs, in an intersection. The cop tried to get him out of the intersection, the guy got hostile. The guy got the cop's gun and killed him. Then he could have killed bystanders. It was a veteran cop and yeah, he made a mistake.

But if he had even drawn his weapon at a naked guy, the media would have crucified him. And if he had shot him? In today's climate he'd probably be in jail. Certainly many people would be screaming for that.
 
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Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Lursa said:
With that chain of thought, when do we start banning cars?
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When do we start controlling guns like we do cars?

Cars main purpose is NOT to kill people. In spite of that, we require drivers licenses, insurance, vision tests. Cars have safety features like safety belts and air bags. Cars are continually tested for safety in crashes; they are rated so everyone knows. When a car has a defect, there is a major recall launched. If cars are involved in crashes due to something about the car, the manufacturer can be sued. We have anti-DUI laws and roadblocks to check that.
 
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