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Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

Libertie76 said:
"The sad part, is that the people that make these arguments aren't the least bit embarrassed to do so."
who are u referring to in this statement
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To whom ever the shoe fits.
 
Libertie76 said:
Wow your reaching for the sky to try and attempt to discredit me, however yes being a racist is a conscious thought process, however having policies unintentionally creating systematic racism is a result if a failed policy. Please quote me saying it was intended to hold the black community down
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You just said it again.
 
Napoleon said:
We arrive at the heart of the argument at last. The counter argument is very simple and you should spend some time contemplating it. People don't get to claim that racist machinations are denying them equal opportunity just because they've squandered it. Equal opportunity means that a person can reasonably expect the same or similar rewards for making wise choices but it also means that you have to take your lumps like everyone else when you make bad ones.
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Yes equal opportunity means a person can expect certain rewards or certain cons due to choices, however your ignoring the fact that these policies are restricting communities to actually be able to take these opportunities. Idk what you mean by squandered it, I'm saying the data shows black people are effected the worse from the drug war black people are effected the worse with income mobility and this is because of the policies failing them.

Do you believe that a black person in south central l.a. Has the exact same social opportunity as a upper middle class white guy from the Los Angeles valley?
If so then why do we see a majority of blacks not succeeding?
 
apdst said:
You just said it again.
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For someone who is "very conservative" that is attempting to argue against cases of free market economics is very laughable

Do you believe that social welfare programs and that an unconstitutional war on drugs is a good thing?
 
apdst said:
Blacls are murdered by other blacks wasaay more disproportionately than that. Where's the outrage?
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Where is the outrage of white on white crime? or hispanic on hispanic crime? or asian on asian crime?

Crime is usually within the same race/ethnicity. Why is "black on black" labeled and not "white on white"?

Here's a good article about that -
About "Black on Black" Crime
 
Libertie76 said:
Yes equal opportunity means a person can expect certain rewards or certain cons due to choices, however your ignoring the fact that these policies are restricting communities to actually be able to take these opportunities.
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If you accept that definition of equal opportunity and the key role of personal responsibility in taking advantage of those opportunities then how can you blame the policy itself for the willful choice of individuals to violate it? We cannot legalize a criminal activity which you have acknowledged to be harmful both to the individual person and the community just because some people choose to engage in it at higher rates than others.

Libertie76 said:
Idk what you mean by squandered it, I'm saying the data shows black people are effected the worse from the drug war black people are effected the worse with income mobility and this is because of the policies failing them.
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The policy is not failing them; they are failing themselves.

Libertie76 said:
Do you believe that a black person in south central l.a. Has the exact same social opportunity as a upper middle class white guy from the Los Angeles valley?
If so then why do we see a majority of blacks not succeeding?
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That depends, is that black person also upper middle class? One of the important things about equal opportunity as it relates to race is that it can only guarantee equal opportunity if all factors other than race are also equal. Even if it were a lower class white guy vs. an upper middle class white guy, the upper middle class white guy is more likely to succeed, but if the only significant variable is race then, yes, I would say the black person has the same opportunity. Is the black person statistically less likely to take advantage of that opportunity? Yes, but the black person has absolutely no one to blame but his/herself for that and it is not indicative of systematic racism.
 
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Napoleon said:
If you accept that definition of equal opportunity and the key role of personal responsibility in taking advantage of those opportunities then how can you blame the policy itself for the willful choice of individuals to violate it? We cannot legalize a criminal activity which you have acknowledged to be harmful both to the individual person and the community just because some people choose to engage in it at higher rates than others.



The policy is not failing them; they are failing themselves.



That depends, is that black person also upper middle class? One of the important things about equal opportunity as it relates to race is that it can only guarantee equal opportunity if all factors other than race are also equal. Even if it were a lower class white guy vs. an upper middle class white guy, the upper middle class white guy is more likely to succeed, but if the only significant variable is race then, yes, I would say the black person has the same opportunity. Is the black person statistically less likely to take advantage of that opportunity? Yes, but the black person has absolutely no one to blame but his/herself for that and it is not indicative of systematic racism.
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1. If your referring to drugs, like I said it is not constitutionally illegal. For the alcohol prohibition we required a constitutional amendment,for the war on drugs we required a presidential action.

2. The policies of welfare as aid and reparation to the black community has yes failed them

3. I'm saying this is a systematic racism, not the willing doings of "the man" I'm not referring to white supremacy being the running factor of u.s. Law and policy, but I am saying that these initial policies have created a systematic racism causing it harder for blacks to succeed.

Yes it is true whites in low income areas have it harder then whites in middle class areas, again because of the policies, and some will argue low income whites have it even harder. Why? Because the policies separate people based on race, such as things like affirmative action. but the biggest issue you're failing to realize is that the black community is so overwhelmingly reliant on governmental aid, the programs of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac subsidize suburban growth and not urban growth, there is seriously so many factors that really destroy the ability for a majority of the black community to actual go through any legitimate income mobility. Now do I think these policies have intended a systematic racism? No. Do I think cops are targeting blacks because they are black? Most of the time no. Do I think federal economic policy has divided people with racial divisions? Yes. Do I think it's statistically much harder for a black person to succeed in today's society then a white person? Yes. Is that because every white guy won't hire black people? No. Is that because a majority of black people belong to direct governmental aid, lack of development in their communities, lack of education, and the prohibition of something that everyone uses I believe so. You haven't argued against any of it you just say "it's not racist" you should broaden your terms on what I'm actually advocating for
 
paddymcdougall said:
Where is the outrage of white on white crime? or hispanic on hispanic crime? or asian on asian crime?

Crime is usually within the same race/ethnicity. Why is "black on black" labeled and not "white on white"?

Here's a good article about that -
About "Black on Black" Crime
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White folks aren't in the street burning **** down screaming about how whites are being targeted by cops.

Now, where's the hand wringing over 3 hundred black folks that will be assaulted, or murdered this weekend?
 
Kobie said:
I think people find it a little fishy that when cops are involved, there's virtually never enough evidence to go to trial.
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Think about what you just said.

If we're training cops correctly and if cops are using lethal force only when it truly is appropriate, then of course there would be few cases where there was evidence to go to trial.

You should maybe take your conspiracy theory that grand jury after grand jury after grand jury are acting out of systemic racism instead of the fact that cops are using lethal force when it's actually appropriate.
 
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Jerry said:
Think about what you just said.

If we're training cops correctly and if cops are using lethal force only when it truly is appropriate, then of course there would be few cases where there was evidence to go to trial.

You should maybe take your conspiracy theory that grand jury after grand jury after grand jury are acting out of systemic racism instead of the fact that cops are using lethal force when it's actually appropriate.
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It just seems that human error alone would lead to more incidents worth taking to trial.

I'm not saying "grand jury after grand jury after grand jury are acting out of systemic racism," but I do think prosecutors generally don't go after cops who kill anyone (be they black, white or purple) as hard as they could.
 
Kobie said:
It just seems that human error alone would lead to more incidents worth taking to trial.

I'm not saying "grand jury after grand jury after grand jury are acting out of systemic racism," but I do think prosecutors generally don't go after cops who kill anyone (be they black, white or purple) as hard as they could.
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This is the time and place to post all of your evidence, your complete thesis.

.....aaaaannnnd GO!
 
Kobie said:
It just seems that human error alone would lead to more incidents worth taking to trial.

I'm not saying "grand jury after grand jury after grand jury are acting out of systemic racism," but I do think prosecutors generally don't go after cops who kill anyone (be they black, white or purple) as hard as they could.
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Hold up, it isn't a black thing, now? :lamo
 
Jerry said:
Cherry-picking Googled news articles made with intent to draw readers and make money doesn't help your cause.
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Did you actually read them?
 
Kobie said:
Did you actually read them?
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They're cherry-picked articles for-profit you just Googled at random, not the academic research and well-sourced thesis supporting your position, of course I didn't read them.
 
Jerry said:
They're cherry-picked articles for-profit you just Googled at random, not the academic research and well-sourced thesis supporting your position, of course I didn't read them.
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Alrighty then.
 
We should have stuck with pictures:

Stereotypical+glasses_9834ba_5400707.gif
 
Kobie said:
I think people find it a little fishy that when cops are involved, there's virtually never enough evidence to go to trial.
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Yeah, almost never...

In a Rare Move, a Conroe Police Officer Was Convicted of Manslaughter | Texas Monthly

In a Rare Move, a Conroe Police Officer Was Convicted of Manslaughter | Texas Monthly

Police officer convicted in 2012 assaults | Local News - Home

St. Paul police officer convicted of ID theft, acquitted of forgery - TwinCities.com

Cop sentenced to prison after sparking ticket fixing scandal - NY Daily News

Oklahoma jury convicts police captain of unarmed black teen's manslaughter | US news | The Guardian

Arlington deputy convicted of voluntary manslaughter in May shooting - The Washington Post

CMPD Officer Kerrick indicted in shooting of unarmed man | CharlotteObserver.com
 
apdst said:
Yeah, almost never...
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But perhaps the best snapshot of a society that’s willing to take an officer at his word comes from Philip Stinson, an assistant professor at Bowling Green State University who has spent years researching the arrests of police officers for various crimes. According to Stinson’s research, 41 U.S. officers were charged with either murder or manslaughter in connection with an on-duty shooting between 2005 and 2011. For comparison, the FBI reported a total of 2,718 “justified homicides” by law enforcement officers during that seven-year time period. That tally is widely considered incomplete by those familiar with how those numbers are counted. Still, even that low-end estimate suggests that police shoot and kill someone in the United States more than once a day, on average. The overwhelming majority of those killings are deemed justified before the case ever reaches a jury.
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Darren Wilson “no true bill”: Why cops are almost never indicted for shooting someone in the line of duty.
 
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