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Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

Jerry said:
You got mad. You lost the game.

Here's your consolation prize:

NSFW


That's who the Ferguson protesters are all about. That's who they're defending. That's who their marching for. That's the behavior they endorse, in addition to cop killing.
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Is that really a video of Mike Brown?

Whoever it is...they sure are oppressing that poor black man.
 
VanceMack said:
I cant imagine anyone that is actually engaging their brain looking at those three cases and say that those men are dead because of racist cops. And yet...here we are. (trimmed quote as to not take up whole page quoting post)
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Thank you for the thought-out reply. I'm glad we have arrived here, because I agree in some ways with your post. Especially in these three cases, there is a valid reason for police involvement. Any time you are violent with a police officer, such as the case with Mike Brown and the recent case in Missouri, there is justification of a police officer involved shooting. Regarding the Garner case, I believe the case is a bit more complicated than that, but you could argue that racism didn't play a role.

I understand that frustration: cops have to make tough decisions each day and it's sometimes unfair to put them under a microscope. What would you do if a giant guy was charging at you after punching you in the face a few times? I don't know. I get that.

Where I diverge with you is that the riots/protests/unrest/anger comes from these cases. These cases are the figurative straws that have piled on over time, and are starting to really cause the camel's knees to buckle. Let's not also forget, during this same time period:

-Tamir Rice was killed after apparently pointing a toy gun at passerbys.
-John Crawford was killed while walking around a Walmart with a toy gun
-Levar Jones was shot when an officer asked him for his ID and he went into the dash to get it.

I'm sure there are others, but 5 of those incidents (Rice, Crawford, Jones, Brown, and Garner acquittal) happened within a short period of time. To me, the most unfortunate part of it all is that it is centered around Mike Brown - because the details in that case are shady at best, and there is a weak argument for police brutality or racism. However, when the story first came out, the details were insane - this ****ing guy was just walking down the road and he got shot after running away from a confrontation with the cops that he didn't start!

Civil unrest doesn't occur because one guy got shot. It's an accumulation of feelings over the course of years. It is unfortunate that it was a case like the Mike Brown case that caused it to boil over, and not the Tamir Rice, John Crawford, or Levar Jones cases that directly ensued. But even though the unrest semi-centers around a dubious case, the numbers of deaths and arrests show where the cause is coming from:

Trends in Mortality Due to Legal Intervention in the United States, 1979 Through 1997
When mortality was stratified by race and sex (in legal police interventions), death rates of Black males on average were 4.7 times those of White males from 1979 to 1988 and averaged 3.2 times higher from 1988 to 1997 (ranges = 3.4–6.7 times and 2.6–5.0 times, respectively).
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Now the above statistic comes with the caveat that the death rate nearly matches the intervention rate of each:
In support of this explanation, deaths due to legal intervention exhibit a distribution by race (63% White, 34% Black) similar to that of all US arrests (67% White, 31% Black).
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So blacks are slightly more likely to die during an intervention than whites, but what are the odds of police intervention?

Racial gap in U.S. arrest rates: 'Staggering disparity'
Blacks are more likely than others to be arrested in almost every city for almost every type of crime. Nationwide, black people are arrested at higher rates for crimes as serious as murder and assault, and as minor as loitering and marijuana possession.
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Arrest rates are lopsided almost everywhere. Only 173 of the 3,538 police departments USA TODAY examined arrested black people at a rate equal to or lower than other racial groups.
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So if rates of death during intervention are relatively equal across races, then perhaps the issue is just police intervention by race. Now, unless you truly think that black people are just breaking the law at ridiculously higher rates than all other races (in some areas up to 9x the arrest rates of others), then there must be some sort of profiling and institutional racism that is occurring. Personally, I think these statistics bode well for one major reason:

It shows that this is an institutional problem - not a case-by-case "the officer is racist" problem.
 
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MMC said:
Another shooting of a young black man in Missouri, that had pulled a gun on the Officer. Couple miles away from Ferguson. The Officer did what he had to.....and deadly force was used. Immediately a band of protestors gather on the scene. Right away taunting the police and blaming them for killing another black man. It didn't matter the young black man pulled a gun. What say ye?







BERKELEY, Missouri (AP) — A suburban St. Louis police officer shot and killed a man who pointed a gun at him at a gas station late Tuesday, police said.

A crowd of about 100 people were gathered early Wednesday at the scene in Berkeley, Missouri, a few miles from Ferguson, where a white police officer fatally shot black 18-year-old Michael Brown in August. The protesters gathered early Wednesday milled around the gas pumps at the station, some taunting and yelling at police officers.

Some had strands of yellow police-line tape draped around their neck, with others using it as a headband. Authorities from multiple agencies, some in riot gear, stood among the protesters.....snip~

Police: Officer in Missouri shot, killed man who pulled gun
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If you pull a gun on a cop, the officer can reply with deadly force. This would be the same with any citizen.
 
Whysoserious - your post #579 was a very good one; thanks for posting it.
 
paddymcdougall said:
How about a trial by jury? The grand jury is not a trial.
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A trial, with no probable cause? Just through his rights on out the window. Right?

And, let's say they violated Wilson's rights and charged him with a crime, send him before a petite jury and he's aquitted...then what? I'll yell you what, the hands-up-a-tards would be raising hell about that, too.
 
Kobie said:
Given that things like de facto segregation via horrible zoning and school funding still persist, I think it's time we live in the present.

Largely minority areas are treated like dirt in the U.S., and it's high time we recognized that fact rather than scream "RACE BAITER" at the people who point that out.

(not having a go at you, John, but it happens here a lot)
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You can thank the Democrats for that. They don't want black folks living outside of black neighborhoods.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

MMC said:
Another shooting of a young black man in Missouri, that had pulled a gun on the Officer. Couple miles away from Ferguson. The Officer did what he had to.....and deadly force was used. Immediately a band of protestors gather on the scene. Right away taunting the police and blaming them for killing another black man. It didn't matter the young black man pulled a gun. What say ye?







BERKELEY, Missouri (AP) — A suburban St. Louis police officer shot and killed a man who pointed a gun at him at a gas station late Tuesday, police said.

A crowd of about 100 people were gathered early Wednesday at the scene in Berkeley, Missouri, a few miles from Ferguson, where a white police officer fatally shot black 18-year-old Michael Brown in August. The protesters gathered early Wednesday milled around the gas pumps at the station, some taunting and yelling at police officers.

Some had strands of yellow police-line tape draped around their neck, with others using it as a headband. Authorities from multiple agencies, some in riot gear, stood among the protesters.....snip~

Police: Officer in Missouri shot, killed man who pulled gun
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So sad. From every report I've heard so far, the suspect did indeed draw a gun on the officer. If that's true, then the officer was almost certainly legally justified in shooting the suspect. Doesn't make this latest tragedy any less tragic, though.

MMC said:
Looks like the Guy wearing the Adidas is yelling.....I can't breathe, after they put the handcuffs on him.
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You deduced that simply by looking at this picture? Wow, that is some spectacular power of induction right there!
 
apdst said:
You can thank the Democrats for that. They don't want black folks living outside of black neighborhoods.
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lolwut.jpg
 
Phys251 said:
lolwut.jpg
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Read section 5 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, paying close attention to the majority minority districts.

You think Charlie Rangel could have still gotten elected if Harlem wasn't 90% black and poor?
 
apdst said:
Read section 5 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, paying close attention to the majority minority districts.

You think Charlie Rangel could have still gotten elected if Harlem wasn't 90% black and poor?
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Most posts I have seen from you in the past are wildly off-base. Why should I assume that you've suddenly turned the corner?
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Phys251 said:
So sad. From every report I've heard so far, the suspect did indeed draw a gun on the officer. If that's true, then the officer was almost certainly legally justified in shooting the suspect. Doesn't make this latest tragedy any less tragic, though.



You deduced that simply by looking at this picture? Wow, that is some spectacular power of induction right there!
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Indeed it is tragic.

Oh sorry about that.....I forgot about the dripping sarcasm smilie.
 
Phys251 said:
Most posts I have seen from you in the past are wildly off-base. Why should I assume that you've suddenly turned the corner?
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You're not familiar with section 5 districts? If not, you should be and if you choose not to inform yourself, that's your problem.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Declan said:
Is it less sane than firing smoke grenades into a crowd of protestors because it surely calms them down?
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... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that putting fire near giant dispensers of gasoline in protest of police is less sane than putting smoke in the middle of a group of people to get them to dispurse.
 
apdst said:
A trial, with no probable cause? Just through his rights on out the window. Right?

And, let's say they violated Wilson's rights and charged him with a crime, send him before a petite jury and he's aquitted...then what? I'll yell you what, the hands-up-a-tards would be raising hell about that, too.
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Lots of people go to trial without going thru the grand jury process. And most people who go through the GJ process DO go to trial. Unless they're cops.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Lots of people go to trial without going thru the grand jury process. And most people who go through the GJ process DO go to trial. Unless they're cops.
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When there's obvious probable cause and evidence.

The Rodney King cops went before a petite jury, weren't convicted and L.A. went ape ****.
 
whysoserious said:
Thank you for the thought-out reply.(Shortened due to post limitations) It shows that this is an institutional problem - not a case-by-case "the officer is racist" problem.
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Not to pick at nits...but you listed those five cases. Why? I mean...the reality is that people die in violent confrontations with cops. Black people. White people. I recently posted the NYC Police shooting instances for 2011 and that very clearly shows that blacks are 3rd on the list of people that were killed in violent confrontations with cops.
"In NYC 2011, 515 people were victims of homicide. 62% were black 319 dead black people). Of the known murderers of those black people, 83% were black.
Conversely, there a grand total of 40 people killed by law enforcement officers in NYC. 44% of those shot were white. 33% of those shot were Hispanic. 22% (9 people) were black. 67% of the black people shot had first fired on the cops."
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...der_in_nyc.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...eport_2011.pdf

So if the topic is police brutality or police overreaction...why is it always about 'black'? ANd if its because 'black lives matter', why is it only about 'police brutality' taking the lives of black people, not blacks taking the lives of black people?

To me...that is why the race issue in this country is played out and why frankly...I dont give a ****. I think I'm like a large number of people. I work too hard and just dont have the time to care about the color of a persons skin. For anything. If cops shoot someone for running around pointing even a toy gun at people, unless that toy gun is obviously a clown gun...then I will allow a few seconds of sadness for the family of the stupid person carrying the toy gun and I will allow sadness for the cop who's life has been forever altered by the decisions of the stupid person carrying the toy gun, but at the end of the day...dont carry a toy gun and point it at people, especially a cop, and you are probably going to be fine...I dont care what race you are.

Same goes for thugs of all race, gender, or religious denomination. I dont care. I just dont. Mike Brown is dead because he was stupid. I know we disagree, but Eric Garner is dead because he was stupid. Tamir Rice is dead because he was stupid. John Crawford is dead because he was stupid.

Levar Jones was shot because the cop was stupid. That should carry a civil consequence at least and quite possibly a criminal charge.

In all of those instances...I dont see race. I dont see racism. I dont see racist cops. And I only see one instance where the shooting was not justified. If there is an 'institutional problem' then it should be viewed, but again...at the same time you are viewing the institution of policing, you have to view the facts regarding the black population and the statistics involving violent criminal activity. Cops are more likely to intervene with black people. Black people are more likely to commit violent criminal activity. It kinda goes hand in hand.

We have a preponderance of people bitching about police activity (and far too many of them crying racism). We are sadly lacking in people calling for positive change both for and within the black community.
 
VanceMack said:
Not to pick at nits...but you listed those five cases. Why? I mean...the reality is that people die in violent confrontations with cops. Black people. White people. I recently posted the NYC Police shooting instances for 2011 and that very clearly shows that blacks are 3rd on the list of people that were killed in violent confrontations with cops.
"In NYC 2011, 515 people were victims of homicide. 62% were black 319 dead black people). Of the known murderers of those black people, 83% were black.
Conversely, there a grand total of 40 people killed by law enforcement officers in NYC. 44% of those shot were white. 33% of those shot were Hispanic. 22% (9 people) were black. 67% of the black people shot had first fired on the cops."
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...der_in_nyc.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...eport_2011.pdf

So if the topic is police brutality or police overreaction...why is it always about 'black'? ANd if its because 'black lives matter', why is it only about 'police brutality' taking the lives of black people, not blacks taking the lives of black people?

To me...that is why the race issue in this country is played out and why frankly...I dont give a ****. I think I'm like a large number of people. I work too hard and just dont have the time to care about the color of a persons skin. For anything. If cops shoot someone for running around pointing even a toy gun at people, unless that toy gun is obviously a clown gun...then I will allow a few seconds of sadness for the family of the stupid person carrying the toy gun and I will allow sadness for the cop who's life has been forever altered by the decisions of the stupid person carrying the toy gun, but at the end of the day...dont carry a toy gun and point it at people, especially a cop, and you are probably going to be fine...I dont care what race you are.

Same goes for thugs of all race, gender, or religious denomination. I dont care. I just dont. Mike Brown is dead because he was stupid. I know we disagree, but Eric Garner is dead because he was stupid. Tamir Rice is dead because he was stupid. John Crawford is dead because he was stupid.

Levar Jones was shot because the cop was stupid. That should carry a civil consequence at least and quite possibly a criminal charge.

In all of those instances...I dont see race. I dont see racism. I dont see racist cops. And I only see one instance where the shooting was not justified. If there is an 'institutional problem' then it should be viewed, but again...at the same time you are viewing the institution of policing, you have to view the facts regarding the black population and the statistics involving violent criminal activity. Cops are more likely to intervene with black people. Black people are more likely to commit violent criminal activity. It kinda goes hand in hand.

We have a preponderance of people bitching about police activity (and far too many of them crying racism). We are sadly lacking in people calling for positive change both for and within the black community.
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Statistics does not erase the pain felt by those who knew the victims.

Stupidity on the part of the victim is not a just reason that we should excuse the actions of those who killed them.

It is also very offensive to the people who still value their memories of the dead
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Statistics does not erase the pain felt by those who knew the victims.

Stupidity on the part of the victim is not a just reason that we should excuse the actions of those who killed them.

It is also very offensive to the people who still value their memories of the dead
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I allow sadness for the families of the fallen. Stupidity often brings dire results to ones self and causes loved ones pain. Advocate for if not an end, at least a reduction in stupid behaviors and you are less likely to have to grieve for the family members of stupid people.

Just tryin to help.
 
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