Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Declan said:

Law abiding citizen you are definitely :lol:

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Says the guy who ignores the fact that the 2nd Amendment IS THE LAW OF THE LAND.

What you propose, door to door gun confiscations, is unlawful.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

X Factor said:

No it won't. Haters will still rally against cops no matter what any video shows. What do they want? Dead cops. When do they want it? Now!

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Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

ThePlayDrive said:

1. The police said he pulled a gun. If they police are telling the truth, then it was permissible to shoot him. I'm not inclined to just accept what the police say just because they said it.

2. The police said he pulled a gun AFTER the protesters came to the scene. Therefore, asking why protesters were mad in light of the fact that the police said he pulled a gun is nonsensical since the police hadn't even provided their side of the story yet.

3. I support these protests wholeheartedly and while I can understand why some people would "taunt" officers (built up anger and frustration), it bothers me. I don't think that that is the way to express one's frustration.

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If I post daily some very REAL accounts of brutality committed by black people, will you begin protesting 'the blacks'? Or will you join others tripping over yourself to defend them and point out that a small minority of black people do not represent black people? What about Muslims? If I post daily articles (with video to enhance the gore) of Muslims committing attrocities, will you too then wholeheartedly join in protests against 'the Muslims'?

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

CanadaJohn said:

In pic #3, it's nice to see the young Chicago Bears fan being beautifully parented as she screams at police. :roll:

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Cmon now CJ. :2wave: she was all excited cuz Jay Thin Crisps Cutler will be back to end the season. :shock: You can tell how she was getting all excited about it. ..... :2razz:


What I was noticing, was how many cops were on the ground.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

ThePlayDrive said:

1. The police said he pulled a gun. If they police are telling the truth, then it was permissible to shoot him. I'm not inclined to just accept what the police say just because they said it.

2. The police said he pulled a gun AFTER the protesters came to the scene. Therefore, asking why protesters were mad in light of the fact that the police said he pulled a gun is nonsensical since the police hadn't even provided their side of the story yet.

3. I support these protests wholeheartedly and while I can understand why some people would "taunt" officers (built up anger and frustration), it bothers me. I don't think that that is the way to express one's frustration.

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So you don't accept the police statement. Will you accept the investigation report findings, or are you one that will claim the report is tainted by the police?

Let's play the what if. Let us reverse the event. During the normal business check, you young man seeing the police officer approaching him, pulls his gun and shoots the officer.

Do you believe the protesters would be raising a voice against the shooting?

What people need to do is quit jumping to conclusions and wait for the investigation to finish. I also really am getting tired of hearing white officer shot black person. No, a police officer shot a person who may have pulled a gun on him. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, unless someone can present evidence to the contrary.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Lachean said:

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Does that include calling brutality where none exists, and continuing to do so even after witness testimony, forensic evidence, and video evidence proves no brutality occurred? :roll:

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

MMC said:

Cmon now CJ. :2wave: she was all excited cuz Jay Thin Crisps Cutler will be back to end the season. :shock: You can tell how she was getting all excited about it. ..... :2razz:


What I was noticing, was how many cops were on the ground.

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I guess white guys who are quarterbacks, even bad ones, are okay.

There were a lot of police rolling around. And that's hard to understand since black people never resist arrest or assault police officers.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Zyphlin said:

Again, another dishonest argument. Stating that people will still rally against the cops in no way, shape, or form disproves his assertion that it would shed more light on this situation.

Its absolutley reasonable to suggest that even with "more light" shed on this incident there's a good chance there would still be people using it to rally against cops. However, people rallying agianst the cops doesn't somehow disprove that more light wouldn't be shed on it.

RDS's comment latter comment is correct, even if you don't agree with the need for cops to have body cameras. If there was a camera on the police officers person there would be more information available regarding this shooting. That's simple fact. Claiming "no it won't" is a flat out falsehood. The rest of your post is nothing but a strawman

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Thanks. I'll be sure to run all my potential posts by you for your determination on what's "reasonable". I think body cameras are a good idea but for the protection of the cop. 9 times out of 10 the video will vindicate the police but there would still be those Monday morning quarterbacking the cops actions. Shoot, there's a thread here about a cop shooting and killing a guy charging at them with a knife and folks were still asking why the cop had to kill the poor young man. I can find it if you doubt me.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

countryboy said:

Does that include calling brutality where none exists, and continuing to do so even after witness testimony, forensic evidence, and video evidence proves no brutality occurred? :roll:

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From my perspective, this is part of the real problem when it comes to credibility and moving forward. The fact that the black community and black leadership around the US and into the highest reaches of government such as the Mayor of NYC, the US Attorney General, and even the President of the United States, would use Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and now this miscreant as symbols to fight for just makes common sense people roll their eyes and discount any true, serious, complaints black communities may have about police brutality.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

VanceMack said:

If I post daily some very REAL accounts of brutality committed by black people, will you begin protesting 'the blacks'? Or will you join others tripping over yourself to defend them and point out that a small minority of black people do not represent black people? What about Muslims? If I post daily articles (with video to enhance the gore) of Muslims committing attrocities, will you too then wholeheartedly join in protests against 'the Muslims'?

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I think the protesting with these cases is horribly overblown, and I think there's been a great deal of distortion (hands up, don't shoot) on the matter, however I see a significant and stark difference between what you're talking about and cops.

Police Officers are Government Officials. They are paid for by tax payer money, their jobs exist due to the social contract we as citizens are a part of, they are a part of the State.

Just as I have less issue with citizens getting upset with a Politician for doing something illegal, even if there are thousands of average citizens doing the same illegal activity, I generally have less of an issue with people getting upset about a Cop doing something that other citizens do. Why? Because police officers are government employees, serving the PUBLIC, and are expected to be held to a higher standard as a civil servent.

The vast majority of police officers are upstanding moral officers who do nothing wrong on the job. Of the minority that aren't, I'd say the vast majority of the wrong doing is generally poor choices in a tense situation or simple recklessness/carelessness. I think it's a minority of the minority that actively do wrong deeds for wrong reasons.

However, I have less issue with the public casting a light on, an complaining, about that minority of a minority than complaining about a minority of a minority of say...black people, or muslims...because the former are civil servents employed on the tax payer dime and thus the public has a vested interest in their actions.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

MMC said:

Looks like the Guy wearing the Adidas is yelling.....I can't breathe, after they put the handcuffs on him.

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At least 11 times!

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Lachean said:

Says the guy who ignores the fact that the 2nd Amendment IS THE LAW OF THE LAND.

What you propose, door to door gun confiscations, is unlawful.

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Apparently talking about guns in a thread about a shooting is off topic, so a guy comes out of an open store with a grocery bag in his hand, talks to another guy a minute, and then starts walking across the parking lot of an open business with evidence of having just been a patron at that open business and an officer on an alleged routine patrol found what reason to find that suspicious enough to enter onto the private property and initiate an encounter with his business' customers?

MMC said:

To stop policing black communities would mean that there would be twice as many dead as there is now. Without Cops.....its like Charles Barclay said. Wild Wild West.

Did you see how the AP gave into it with their Poll. They went and polled 85 people and came up with that Best Story of 2014 was Cops killing black men.

What a crock that is. Best Story of 2014. The MS Media is driving this issue. Its about time people woke up and went after those pushing the Narrative. That would be those Editors and News Directors. Break out their names and let the good people of this nation bring them what they deserve.


AP poll: Police killings of blacks voted top story of 2014


The police killings of unarmed blacks in Ferguson, Missouri, and elsewhere — and the investigations and tumultuous protests they inspired — was the top news story of 2014, according to The Associated Press' annual poll of U.S. editors and news directors.

Read more at AP poll: Police killings of blacks voted top story of 2014 :: WRAL.com

After the Editors and Directors.....then go for those that were feeding tensions. No reason they should get to live comfortable and easy like. Show them there is a price to pay.....for playing with society.

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Give them what they want, no police. Their choice. I read that 93% of all blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. I suppose this is perfectly okay with them. If so, let the protesters have they way. This has gone on long enough.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

X Factor said:

I think body cameras are a good idea but for the protection of the cop. 9 times out of 10 the video will vindicate the police

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Removed your passive aggressive whines and irrelevant strawmen to get to the actual useful substance of your post.

So you admit that 9 out of 10 times the video will show useful information (as one would assume informatoin that vindicates the police would be useful to the investigation).

You know another way of saying that the video would show useful information? Saying that the video would "shed more light" on what occured.

Yet for some reason you responded to a post that said nothing but 1) get body cameras 2) they'll shed more light by saying "no it won't".

So a body camera wouldn't have shed more light on the situation...even though you claim 9 times out of 10 the video would have information that vindicates the cop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Lachean said:

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I'd say it's possible.

I'd also say it's kind of irrelevant to what X-Factor's post was saying, since his final line makes it pretty clear he's talking about said protesters who don't just condemn police brutality but also cops.

Unless somehow you think those who chant "What do we want? Dead cops. When do they want it? Now!" you know...."appreciate" police officers.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I was hoping someone here at DP would have some fresh info or photos to post. Apparently not. What I've been seeing in other boards is this:

1. There is footage of the incident with the security camera being far away. In the upper left side of the image we see the incident going on and the teen clearly raises his arm and points it forward - some people say a gun is visible; others don't see anything other than the raised arm. Personally I think the image is too far away to see clearly whether or not he has a gun in his hand.

2. Police report is that a gun was found in the scene, with the serial number scratched out.

3. Some people say that someone took a picture of the scene and in this picture there is no gun. Then an official picture *taken two hours later* at the same angle and covering the same spot shows a gun.

4. Some people say that there is another security camera much closer to the incident (and apparently there are pictures taken of that camera to show its proximity to the scene) but its footage has not been released.

5. The police has stated that the cop had a body camera but it was not on, and that his patrol car had a dashboard camera but "it is thought that it wasn't on either."

6. It seems like the teen had had previous incidents of armed offenses in his background.

7. Apparently the only gun that fired shots was the officer's.

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These are the statements and/or facts I believe are out there right now - I don't endorse any of them, I don't know if they are true or not, and I don't know if there are other statements, facts, pictures, or footage that contradict or confirm the above. So, I'm NOT taking any position here, since I'm a firm believer in NOT RUSHING TO JUDGMENT.

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Now, let's think about these items.

Obviously we have two possibilites.

A. Footage in item 1 is the closest one available; police is not trying to prevent the public from seeing better footage. The teen did indeed point a gun at the police officer. The gun found in the scene is indeed the teen's gun. Maybe it was temporarily removed for expert examination and investigation then put back which would explain its absence in a picture taken two hours earlier and its presence in the later picture (I don't know if this is done - I mean, taking evidence for examination and putting it back for pictures), or else the first alleged picture taken by a citizen is a fake or photoshopped to erase the gun from it. The body camera and the dashboard camera were indeed turned off just by accident, like police statement said, because officers are still not used to this technology and make these mistakes. The teen having used guns illegally before, would lend credence to the idea that he indeed had a gun and the gun found in the scene was his, and he pointed it at the officer.

IF HYPOTHESIS A IS FACTUAL, *OF COURSE* THE OFFICER WAS RIGHT IN DEFENDING HIS OWN LIFE AND TAKING DOWN THE TEEN.

B. The teen was pointing his arm forward for some reason and had no gun (this could be as simple as the officer asking "where are you going" and the teen pointing to some street and saying "I was planning to go there" or any other thousand possibilities. There is better footage from a closer camera and it shows no gun in the teen's hand and this is why it's not being shown. There is footage from the officer's body cam and/or dashboard cam and it shows no gun and it's been erased and a false statement was made that the cameras were not on during the incident. The citizen's picture is accurate and there was no gun by the body. The police then later planted a gun there. The idea that a gun is in the scene, is taken out for expert examination then put back for pictures is not standard procedure as more likely the picture would be taken first, then the gun would be removed. It might be hard to believe that the teen had his arm fully extended and pointing a gun at the officer, and the officer then had time to draw his own gun and fire several shots while the teen didn't fire a single shot.

IF HYPOTHESIS B IS FACTUAL, THEN WE ARE FACING AN EPISODE OF UNJUSTIFIED USE OF LETHAL FORCE BY POLICE.

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Again, I have no idea whether A or B are closer to the reality of the events. Of course maybe there is a C scenario that I haven't thought of, or any other possibility D or E, etc. Maybe there are good explanations for the suspicious elements (why wasn't the footage of a closer camera released? Were the body camera and the dashboard camera truly turned off? Was the gun present in the scene from the beginning?) and the police are just unlucky that these suspicious elements happened - life is often stranger than fiction. Maybe, however, the police were in the wrong and they are involved in a cover-up.

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Either way, it is too early to rush to judgment. Does anybody have information, pictures, or footage that might endorse or support hypothesis A or hypothesis B?

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Zyphlin said:

I think the protesting with these cases is horribly overblown, and I think there's been a great deal of distortion (hands up, don't shoot) on the matter, however I see a significant and stark difference between what you're talking about and cops.

Police Officers are Government Officials. They are paid for by tax payer money, their jobs exist due to the social contract we as citizens are a part of, they are a part of the State.

Just as I have less issue with citizens getting upset with a Politician for doing something illegal, even if there are thousands of average citizens doing the same illegal activity, I generally have less of an issue with people getting upset about a Cop doing something that other citizens do. Why? Because police officers are government employees, serving the PUBLIC, and are expected to be held to a higher standard as a civil servent.

The vast majority of police officers are upstanding moral officers who do nothing wrong on the job. Of the minority that aren't, I'd say the vast majority of the wrong doing is generally poor choices in a tense situation or simple recklessness/carelessness. I think it's a minority of the minority that actively do wrong deeds for wrong reasons.

However, I have less issue with the public casting a light on, an complaining, about that minority of a minority than complaining about a minority of a minority of say...black people, or muslims...because the former are civil servants employed on the tax payer dime and thus the public has a vested interest in their actions.

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I am fine with protesting specific incidents of police brutality. I am fine with promotion of dialogue between communities. However...the second the dialogue goes to 'the cops (or as we see regularly 'the pigs') and people bashing and expressing hatred towards all cops or 'the cops' in general, the argument on brutality is lost.

I agree...the vast majority of police officers are upstanding moral officers. I also agree violent black people (and if you want to be specific, violent black people that target others because they are white, hispanic, gay, or whatever) dont represent all black people. Extremist Muslim Fundamentalists dont represent all Muslims. As soon as the rhetoric goes to 'the blacks' or 'the muslims'...immediately there is an effort to show why bigotry and profiling is wrong. That same zeal should exist with law enforcement officers.

By all means...target brutality where it exists. But people should know what they are protesting before they protest. I can see people upset about Garners death but they lose all objectivity over cause. Mike Brown? Hey...I get it...be very upset when you hear the lies told. Indeed...if 'the cops' executed a poor little gentle innocent man who was already on the ground surrendering with his hands up...well...I can understand folk feeling a certain way about that. But if it turns out that it was A cop who was firing in a violent response to a violent thug who had only moments before robbed a store and threw the clerk around like a rag doll and who witnesses say walked up to the cop car and began punching the seated officer...then be sad for a dead stupid man but dont burn down your ****ing town over it. If it turns out this guy did in fact pull a gun on the cop, then put your protest signs away, and say thank you mr policeman and I'm very happy you are safe.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Zyphlin said:

However, I have less issue with the public casting a light on, an complaining, about that minority of a minority than complaining about a minority of a minority of say...black people, or muslims...because the former are civil servents employed on the tax payer dime and thus the public has a vested interest in their actions.

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And that would be fine, if that were the case. But it seems to me the protests are against any police incident where a black person is killed by a non black, regardless of the circumstance. I prefer honesty in protesting, but maybe that's just me.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Declan said:

Apparently talking about guns in a thread about a shooting is off topic, so a guy comes out of an open store with a grocery bag in his hand, talks to another guy a minute, and then starts walking across the parking lot of an open business with evidence of having just been a patron at that open business and an officer on an alleged routine patrol found what reason to find that suspicious enough to enter onto the private property and initiate an encounter with his business' customers?

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Under your description. So under your story, why do you believe the victim "allegedly" pulled a gun on the officer? Makes you think what the outcome could have been if said "guy" states , "good evening officer, what can I do for you. I don't want you to be alarmed but I have a concealed weapon on me. I do have a permit".

Do you have evidence that the patrol was not "routine"? Do you have evidence the store does like the police checking on his business?

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

sawdust said:

This happened when I was asleep, a thousand miles from where I am. I don't know enough to talk about it. I'm sure eventually details will come out. All I know at this point is that it happened. I would suggest that everyone wait to discover the how and why and not say things like, just because the cops said something, I don't trust them. That's foolish.

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Wow! Bottle this post and store it for a rainy day. A rare display of wisdom and a noble attempt to impart that wisdom on others. Well done!

It would really be good if all of us would only step forward and comment about things that we have some bias to comment (expertise, actual witness or experience).... Kind of like at the airport: don't approach the baggage carousel until you see your bag. It makes everything more efficient. All of this wild ass speculation that happens on DP daily, especially the wild ass speculation that comes across as "I know what I am talking" does no one any good.

MMC said:

Another shooting of a young black man in Missouri, that had pulled a gun on the Officer. Couple miles away from Ferguson. The Officer did what he had to.....and deadly force was used. Immediately a band of protestors gather on the scene. Right away taunting the police and blaming them for killing another black man. It didn't matter the young black man pulled a gun. What say ye?







BERKELEY, Missouri (AP) — A suburban St. Louis police officer shot and killed a man who pointed a gun at him at a gas station late Tuesday, police said.

A crowd of about 100 people were gathered early Wednesday at the scene in Berkeley, Missouri, a few miles from Ferguson, where a white police officer fatally shot black 18-year-old Michael Brown in August. The protesters gathered early Wednesday milled around the gas pumps at the station, some taunting and yelling at police officers.

Some had strands of yellow police-line tape draped around their neck, with others using it as a headband. Authorities from multiple agencies, some in riot gear, stood among the protesters.....snip~

Police: Officer in Missouri shot, killed man who pulled gun

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Pull a gun on a cop, get shot. Nothing to protest here at all.

Perotista said:

Give them what they want, no police. Their choice. I read that 93% of all blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. I suppose this is perfectly okay with them. If so, let the protesters have they way. This has gone on long enough.

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Well that's a point CJ was making.....as BO, Holder, Sharptones, and Jesse Jackson ALL know that this issue of cops shooting blacks is not what is causing most young black men to be killed. Its crime, and those neighborhoods own residents usually validate it.

calamity said:

Pull a gun on a cop, get shot. Nothing to protest here at all.

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Heya Calamity. :2wave: You weren't going with, the St Louis Rams lost.....were you? :2razz:

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

It's getting harder and harder to feel sorry for these goons.

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Zyphlin said:

Removed your passive aggressive whines and irrelevant strawmen to get to the actual useful substance of your post.

So you admit that 9 out of 10 times the video will show useful information (as one would assume informatoin that vindicates the police would be useful to the investigation).

You know another way of saying that the video would show useful information? Saying that the video would "shed more light" on what occured.

Yet for some reason you responded to a post that said nothing but 1) get body cameras 2) they'll shed more light by saying "no it won't".

So a body camera wouldn't have shed more light on the situation...even though you claim 9 times out of 10 the video would have information that vindicates the cop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

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To those intent on hating on cops, nothing vindicating cops will make a difference so yeah, to them (and their apologists) body cameras will be absolutely useless for any kind of making a difference.