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Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

That's horrible advice. Depending on what the officer is trying to talk to you about, I would greatly advise against that.

Instead, ask if you are being arrested or if you should get a lawyer.

I guess everyone missed the "depending on what the officer is trying to talk to you about" part. :roll: Obviously if it's just some kind of routine thing, you answer the questions as best you can but if there is some sort of crime committed and for any reason you are considered suspect, the best advice is to keep your mouth shut. Cue - "But I would never ever commit a crime or be questioned for such a crime either and if I was I have nothing to hide" responses. The right to remain silent is one of the best legal rights we have that's why it was put in our constitution. I'm surprised, or maybe not, most people take such a thing for granted.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

If asking an officer "why am I being arrested" or "should I get a lawyer" escalates a situation, then the police have a problem and need to be re-trained. Thank you for unwittingly highlighting the problem of excessive force and please stay in Canada.

Yes, asking questions and expecting answers is excessive force. I don't care if you ask either of those questions, but if you just clam up and are not going to answer then he has not choice but to escalate the situation and take you in. His job is to figure out what is going on, why he was called here or what you are up to, he gets paid for that. I really liked the classy part about stay out of our country at the end also.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Yes, it's always wise to escalate a harmless situation when simple manners would suffice. No matter who it is, if someone comes up to me and asks me a question, I try to answer it if I can or let them know that I can't. Since I'm not a criminal nor do I have a giant chip on my shoulder, I tend to treat police officers in the same manner. And just to be clear, that's not a hypothetical. I've been out walking my dog and been approached by a police car asking if I've seen something or someone they're looking for or been advised about something. I don't immediately go into full defense attorney combat mode just because they're police officers.

Respect and decency towards one another can go a long, long way.

How is asking for a lawyer and being silent, both ****ing rights in this country, being disrespectful?
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Races and religions are not responsible for policing each other, police are.

That's the weakest excuse for practiced bigotry I've ever seen.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I don't think you could find one person who studies law that thinks "just answer the officers" questions is a good idea.
How much time have you spent studying law and what sample size did you use for that statement of yours?
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Two parish deputies showed up a buddy's house one evening, responding to a report of domestic violence. He and his wife were obviously puzzled beyond belief and told them that there was no trouble.

They didn't get belligerent. They didn't cause a scene. They didn't catch an attitude. They said, "come on in...see for yourself. Talk to the kids. My grandma stays with us, talk to her".

Reminds me of something from a Monday this fall with my parents. My mom stays most of the year at our camper at a camp ground on a lake near home. They've got this nice big roofed deck and a big TV out there where my mom and dad usually spend most of their time.

No cops were called, but the campground's owner was called and asked to go check on their camper for a potential domestic accuse issue because they were hearing screaming and cursing coming from the other side of the shore they were on. (This was in late fall, when most peole weren't in the camp ground anymore).

The owner came down towards where my parents camper are and was hearing yelling and realized it was my parents and just laughed. He pulled up, walked up on the porch and said:

"Let me guess, you're watching the game"

The screaming and cursing the people heard wasn't from my mom towards my father...it was here screaming for them to sack romo and recover the ****ing ball ;)

The joys of Monday Night Football.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

How is asking for a lawyer and being silent, both ****ing rights in this country, being disrespectful?

It's not when done respectfully like a decent human being. And as long as you understand that if there is a criminal investigation going in your responses may get you arrested then that's cool. Just be arrested respectfully.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

It's not when done respectfully like a decent human being. And as long as you understand that if there is a criminal investigation going in your responses may get you arrested then that's cool. Just be arrested respectfully.

Agreed.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

How much time have you spent studying law and what sample size did you use for that statement of yours?

That's going to be mostly common sense. I've taken a low level criminal justice class and low-level general lawyerings classes. But this is just a common sense idea.

When in doubt, shut the **** up and ask for a lawyer. Don't be a dick. Don't resist. Don't threaten. Just be do what is rightful for you to do and ask for a lawyer.

*Edit:

Why is this a topic to argue over? It's a given right, it's common sense, and it's safe for everyone.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Which is simply false. A video from the officers POV, in better quality than the horrible gas statoin camera, would ABSOLUTELY shed more light on what occured during this situation.

Now I don't understand. You seem to now contradict your earlier statement that having these videos would fix some problems but start some others.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I'm not criticizing your opinion; I'm criticizing your allergy to the facts. The fact is that you accused me of doing something in response to a post where I did the exact opposite. Do you realize that you could have just said, "Oh. I didn't see that you had said that. My mistake."? Jesus Christ, dude. Integrity is a lot easier than this **** show.
Whatever, you only added that in an attempt to seem objective, which you obviously aren't. Cop haters never are.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Reminds me of something from a Monday this fall with my parents. My mom stays most of the year at our camper at a camp ground on a lake near home. They've got this nice big roofed deck and a big TV out there where my mom and dad usually spend most of their time.

No cops were called, but the campground's owner was called and asked to go check on their camper for a potential domestic accuse issue because they were hearing screaming and cursing coming from the other side of the shore they were on. (This was in late fall, when most peole weren't in the camp ground anymore).

The owner came down towards where my parents camper are and was hearing yelling and realized it was my parents and just laughed. He pulled up, walked up on the porch and said:

"Let me guess, you're watching the game"

The screaming and cursing the people heard wasn't from my mom towards my father...it was here screaming for them to sack romo and recover the ****ing ball ;)

The joys of Monday Night Football.

Speaking of football, how about them Cowboys?
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....


I don't think we are really at odds. My point was from the perspective of a non criminal. If a cop in a parking lot of target ask to see in my bag, I will show him the contents and the receipt in order to avoid getting arrested, getting a lawyer and having him show him the items and receipt. If I at all think that there are serious charges about to be levied at me I will certainly take advantage of all my rights.
 
I'm going to disagree and say that compared to a lot of other countries on this planet the USA has a lot of excellent cops who do a tough job well.

No human being is perfect and some people make mistakes. :roll:

What are you disagreeing with? I didn't say anything that contradicts what you just said; just said we are far from the utopian view I depicted, as shown by two completely innocent cops being shot and killed in NYC. I never implied that we are doing better or worse than any other country. I'm just saying that we are far from being perfect. I'd agree with you that perfection is not possible and no country has a perfect police force and a perfect population.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Whatever, you only added that in an attempt to seem objective, which you obviously aren't. Cop haters never are.
You have very powerful defense mechanisms.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

You have very powerful defense mechanisms.
And you are utterly clueless about me. Quit being all passive aggressive and ****. :roll:
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I don't think we are really at odds. My point was from the perspective of a non criminal. If a cop in a parking lot of target ask to see in my bag, I will show him the contents and the receipt in order to avoid getting arrested, getting a lawyer and having him show him the items and receipt. If I at all think that there are serious charges about to be levied at me I will certainly take advantage of all my rights.

I don't think we are either.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

Translation: insanity.

Look, dude... no one is investigating my actions. No one probably ever will. But every police action is investigated internally, judicially and by the public.

Which Judge investigated the Ferguson decision? Get real. Judges don't hear cases that are never brought. Baaaaaah.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

That's going to be mostly common sense. I've taken a low level criminal justice class and low-level general lawyerings classes. But this is just a common sense idea.

When in doubt, shut the **** up and ask for a lawyer. Don't be a dick. Don't resist. Don't threaten. Just be do what is rightful for you to do and ask for a lawyer.

*Edit:

Why is this a topic to argue over? It's a given right, it's common sense, and it's safe for everyone.

if you are the "target" of an investigation...maybe

if the cop is just asking general questions.....maybe not

most of us at one time or another have probably been stopped in our lives

for me...probably half a dozen times in 50+ years

answered the questions......and was on my merry way

about 20 years ago, i was in a neighborhood....searching for a address where i was supposed to meet a few people

going like 5 mph down the street....looking for house numbers

cop pulls up behind.....flips his lights.....

you know the story.....why are you here.....what are you doing....etc

house was about a block further up.....he led the way......

sometimes it is better to talk to them....
 
Well that's a point CJ was making.....as BO, Holder, Sharptones, and Jesse Jackson ALL know that this issue of cops shooting blacks is not what is causing most young black men to be killed. Its crime, and those neighborhoods own residents usually validate it.

They accept it as long as it black on black crime.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I guess everyone missed the "depending on what the officer is trying to talk to you about" part. :roll: Obviously if it's just some kind of routine thing, you answer the questions as best you can but if there is some sort of crime committed and for any reason you are considered suspect, the best advice is to keep your mouth shut.

There was nothing "routine" about my contact with the officer and he was definitely probing for potential criminal activity. Apparently the right call then would be to not answer his questions. Silly me, I actually wanted him to know that I wasn't a burglar and oddly, he didn't try to insist that I was one once I could answer his questions (and he finally allowed me to grab my ID). Clearly I was lucky to be dealing the last cop on earth that didn't just throw me on the ground and shoot me

Cue - "But I would never ever commit a crime or be questioned for such a crime either and if I was I have nothing to hide" responses. The right to remain silent is one of the best legal rights we have that's why it was put in our constitution. I'm surprised, or maybe not, most people take such a thing for granted.

That's funny, the right to a jury trial is also in the Constitution but people still seem to only support that right as long as the jury comes back with a decision they agree with.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

And you are utterly clueless about me. Quit being all passive aggressive and ****. :roll:
This one is called projection.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

I don't think we are really at odds. My point was from the perspective of a non criminal. If a cop in a parking lot of target ask to see in my bag, I will show him the contents and the receipt in order to avoid getting arrested, getting a lawyer and having him show him the items and receipt. If I at all think that there are serious charges about to be levied at me I will certainly take advantage of all my rights.

Isn't it interesting that you are only obeying because you want to avoid aggression on your person and spending time in an unsafe place? You're not obeying because you respect the guy or that you respect the rules, but that you know the guy can **** up your life. What a wonderful system we have here.
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

if you are the "target" of an investigation...maybe

if the cop is just asking general questions.....maybe not

most of us at one time or another have probably been stopped in our lives

for me...probably half a dozen times in 50+ years

answered the questions......and was on my merry way

about 20 years ago, i was in a neighborhood....searching for a address where i was supposed to meet a few people

going like 5 mph down the street....looking for house numbers

cop pulls up behind.....flips his lights.....

you know the story.....why are you here.....what are you doing....etc

house was about a block further up.....he led the way......

sometimes it is better to talk to them....

Who cares why I'm there? Who am I harming by driving around on the road?
 
Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

about 20 years ago, i was in a neighborhood....searching for a address where i was supposed to meet a few people going like 5 mph down the street....looking for house numbers cop pulls up behind.....flips his lights.....you know the story.....why are you here.....what are you doing....etc. house was about a block further up.....he led the way......sometimes it is better to talk to them....

Look, it's your discretion. But if you ever aren't sure, there is no harm in remaining silent and asking for a lawyer. In the case you mentioned, I would probably explain myself; but I don't have to and it should work out the same - just with a lot more hoops.

The one thing you don't want to do is resist lawful question and arrests or pull a ****ing gun.
 
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