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Thread: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Should we let the police be held unaccountable when they show improper judgement.
    Should I answer your question when you didn't answer mine?

    Edit: I'm assuming your sentence was a question since it is phrased as one, though it's lacking the question mark.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Same goes for thugs of all race, gender, or religious denomination. I dont care. I just dont. Mike Brown is dead because he was stupid. I know we disagree, but Eric Garner is dead because he was stupid. Tamir Rice is dead because he was stupid. John Crawford is dead because he was stupid.

    Levar Jones was shot because the cop was stupid. That should carry a civil consequence at least and quite possibly a criminal charge.
    (Quote snipped as to not take up the whole page)

    I have to start with this because I would like clarification... Tamir Rice was a kid with an airsoft gun. What did he do that was stupid? It's not uncommon for kids to have toy guns and to play "cops and robbers". It is uncommon for them to be shot by police after 2 seconds of arriving on scene. And you're definitely going to have to tell me what John Crawford did that was stupid by walking around with a toy gun in an open carry state!

    I think, Vance, that people are just reacting to what they see. Blacks are seeing larger proportional arrests and deaths than whites, and saying "wtf are we getting arrested and shot so much"? It's easy to pin that as racist cops, but I don't think the numbers say that. I think you can draw only 2 conclusions from the numbers:

    1) Either black people commit crimes at far higher rates than all other races
    2) There is some level of institutional racism that causes more black people to be arrested

    I tend to lean towards number 2. Either way, it's still an issue that should not be ignored and should be investigated. Quite frankly, I think the actions of both sides, per usual, have been childish and ****ing stupid. Why would anyone take the side that is looting seriously? And how can anyone clear the police officers when everyone is just calling blacks thugs and blaming them? Why can't there just be an honest discussion like we're having now?

    Let's us, as a nation, have an adult discussion about what's going here. Why are blacks being arrested at a higher rate in almost every area of the country for almost every crime? Why is it happening and how can we, as a nation, curb that statistic (by lowering their crime rate or balancing the arrest rate)?

    ------------------
    Side note: It may not get as much attention, but I think people are fully aware of and concerned about black-on-black crime. Kanye West and Jay-Z even have a song about it. However, I think a lot could be gained from understanding both statistics, what is causing them, and the parallels between them.

    That's why I think, despite the riots, despite the anger, and despite all of the negativity, I want this discussion to continue.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If that's how you interpreted a single sentence then any further response is futile
    I can only respond to what you type in your messages, and I can not tell what you tried to imply in your previous statement.

    My apologies if the abcense of a question mark made my statement unclear, I made my previous statement with the intent of questioning.
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    WATCH: Utah police cleared in shooting of unarmed white man | FOX31 Denver

    Sadness for the family of this particular stupid person. But...this is what happens when stupid people do stupid things. We can express sorrow for the families and the officer involved. But...this guy deserved to be no longer wasting perfectly good oxygen.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Should I answer your question when you didn't answer mine?

    Edit: I'm assuming your sentence was a question since it is phrased as one, though it's lacking the question mark.
    I seem to be vulnerable to making that error while typing on a mobile phone.

    I expect police to control the situation when a group of people start to riot. However I have the expectation that police should not use force when it is not required.
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    (Quote snipped as to not take up the whole page)

    I have to start with this because I would like clarification... Tamir Rice was a kid with an airsoft gun. What did he do that was stupid? It's not uncommon for kids to have toy guns and to play "cops and robbers". It is uncommon for them to be shot by police after 2 seconds of arriving on scene. And you're definitely going to have to tell me what John Crawford did that was stupid by walking around with a toy gun in an open carry state!

    I think, Vance, that people are just reacting to what they see. Blacks are seeing larger proportional arrests and deaths than whites, and saying "wtf are we getting arrested and shot so much"? It's easy to pin that as racist cops, but I don't think the numbers say that. I think you can draw only 2 conclusions from the numbers:

    1) Either black people commit crimes at far higher rates than all other races
    2) There is some level of institutional racism that causes more black people to be arrested

    I tend to lean towards number 2. Either way, it's still an issue that should not be ignored and should be investigated. Quite frankly, I think the actions of both sides, per usual, have been childish and ****ing stupid. Why would anyone take the side that is looting seriously? And how can anyone clear the police officers when everyone is just calling blacks thugs and blaming them? Why can't there just be an honest discussion like we're having now?

    Let's us, as a nation, have an adult discussion about what's going here. Why are blacks being arrested at a higher rate in almost every area of the country for almost every crime? Why is it happening and how can we, as a nation, curb that statistic (by lowering their crime rate or balancing the arrest rate)?

    ------------------
    Side note: It may not get as much attention, but I think people are fully aware of and concerned about black-on-black crime. Kanye West and Jay-Z even have a song about it. However, I think a lot could be gained from understanding both statistics, what is causing them, and the parallels between them.

    That's why I think, despite the riots, despite the anger, and despite all of the negativity, I want this discussion to continue.
    Tamir Rice spent the hours before the confrontation with the cops intentionally threatening complete strangers in the park. There are numerous pictures of this. His stupid behaviors caused a citizen to call 911 and report it. When the police arrived, he went towards the cops and pulled his shirt up, reaching for the weapon.
    brandishing-gun.jpg
    635526068060400342-Tamir-Rice-with-gun.jpgcleveland-police-shoot-boy.jpg

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There wasn't enough evidence to go to trial.
    I think people find it a little fishy that when cops are involved, there's virtually never enough evidence to go to trial.
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Tamir Rice spent the hours before the confrontation with the cops intentionally threatening complete strangers in the park. There are numerous pictures of this. His stupid behaviors caused a citizen to call 911 and report it. When the police arrived, he went towards the cops and pulled his shirt up, reaching for the weapon.
    I've not really seen enough info on this. I've heard that narrative, but but "threatening" do you mean he was actually threatening them, or just being a dumb kid and pretending he had a real gun and pointing it at people? The latter is something I could see almost any 12-year old doing. It's going to be very hard to convince me that there was a justification to shoot a 12-year old who had a BB gun without proper warning.

    And John Crawford? How was he an idiot? It's an open carry state. Why were the cops even called?
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    1) Either black people commit crimes at far higher rates than all other races
    2) There is some level of institutional racism that causes more black people to be arrested


    it is fairly easy to google FBI statistics

    FBI — Table 43

    now it is fairly simple to see that as a % of the population, blacks are arrested (hence commit) more crimes than other races

    there may be hundreds of reasons WHY this is a fact.....BUT IT IS A FACT

    14% of the population i believe.......yet committing a very large % of the crimes

    is it no wonder that they have more confrontations with law enforcement?
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think, Vance, that people are just reacting to what they see. Blacks are seeing larger proportional arrests and deaths than whites, and saying "wtf are we getting arrested and shot so much"? It's easy to pin that as racist cops, but I don't think the numbers say that. I think you can draw only 2 conclusions from the numbers:

    1) Either black people commit crimes at far higher rates than all other races
    2) There is some level of institutional racism that causes more black people to be arrested

    I tend to lean towards number 2. Either way, it's still an issue that should not be ignored and should be investigated. Quite frankly, I think the actions of both sides, per usual, have been childish and ****ing stupid. Why would anyone take the side that is looting seriously? And how can anyone clear the police officers when everyone is just calling blacks thugs and blaming them? Why can't there just be an honest discussion like we're having now?

    Let's us, as a nation, have an adult discussion about what's going here. Why are blacks being arrested at a higher rate in almost every area of the country for almost every crime? Why is it happening and how can we, as a nation, curb that statistic (by lowering their crime rate or balancing the arrest rate)?
    Why do blacks have the highest unemployment rates? Why do they have the highest dropout rates? Why do they have the highest teen pregnancy rates? Why do they have the highest incarceration rates? Why do they kill more people by percentage than every other racial group? Why do they lead every misery index category in the nation including in states with extraordinarily low percentage of total population like Alaska?

    Those are all really good questions and have nothing to do with 'black people are violent'. There IS a social construct in place that contributes to ALL of that. The solution is to be willing to go there...to identify the problems and stand against the problems. The solution is NOT to make excuses or to rationalize, or to justify. Thats why the dialogue is simply so screwed up. Stupid white guy causes cops to shoot him...hmmm...thats a shame. Stupid black guy causes cops to shoot him...burn this bitch down.

    If the concern is that so many are incarcerated...then for crying out loud...promote the message to young black people to STOP COMMITTING ****ING CRIMES. Need help with the education? Yes...absolutely. Need real jobs people can actually aspire to? You bet. Promote the hell out of that message and bring in investors. But STOP COMMITTING ****ING CRIMES. Black on black crime devastates the black community. Theres no excuse for it. Theres no rationalization for it. If its still happening, we dont have ENOUGH black people in prison...not too many.

    I dont want JAY Z and Kanye to sing about it. I dont want a random protest about black on black violence once every 6 years to show how much they care. I want to see engagement by politicians, by wealthy contributors, by community leaders. I want to see investment...not just lip service. Until that happens...nothing will change. Until that happens, there will be more instances of violence and there will be more instances of police shootings.

    Fix the problems with the community. If we have problems with law enforcement...we can work on that too. But fix the problems with the community and see if we still have the problems with law enforcement. I'm betting we wont, and if we do, those problems will mirror the problems every other race faces.

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