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Thread: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

  1. #341
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    To all that accused the police and now have viewed the video proving the black man was shot to death as the officer was threatened as the video clearly show the animal pointed the gun directly at the cop and that was his last act. Apologize to everyone cop haters.
    I suspect that rather than admit the cop did the right thing, end of story there will be a ton of tap dancing about how really...it was still the cops fault.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    To all that accused the police and now have viewed the video proving the black man was shot to death as the officer was threatened as the video clearly show the animal pointed the gun directly at the cop and that was his last act. Apologize to everyone cop haters.
    Not gonna happen, this will be another "hands up, don't shoot" rallying cry from the cop haters. I do hope they eventually release the entire video. The account I heard said the cop was so startled that he fell back and drew and fired on the way down. That's some good shootin'.

    Doot doot doot...another one bites the dust.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Just a wild guess, but I think anyone of any race will be shot after pointing a gun at a cop. If this anti police movement had even a little common sense tied in with it, the cop haters might make things better for themselves. Their behavior, however, is guaranteed to get people to ignore their cause and simply despise their behavior. That doesn't have a chance of convincing anybody.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Just a wild guess, but I think anyone of any race will be shot after pointing a gun at a cop. If this anti police movement had even a little common sense tied in with it, the cop haters might make things better for themselves. Their behavior, however, is guaranteed to get people to ignore their cause and simply despise their behavior. That doesn't have a chance of convincing anybody.
    Yep, very similar the the "occupy wall street" movement.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I thought Al Sharpton was instigating all the violence. You found some yahoo's website and all of a sudden this is a communist revolution. Easily the stupidest thing I've heard about these protests to date. Hands down.
    Him, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Educator GreatNews2night's Avatar
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    To all that accused the police and now have viewed the video proving the black man was shot to death as the officer was threatened as the video clearly show the animal pointed the gun directly at the cop and that was his last act. Apologize to everyone cop haters.
    Where is the video "proving" anything? If you are talking about the surveillance video taken from a huge distance (the one with a white car in the foreground and the incident happening in the upper left corner) it doesn't prove anything since all you can see is the teen pointing his arm forward, which could be anything including him pointing to some location in answer to a question by the officer such as "where are you going?" or it might be him handing his cell phone to the officer saying "Here, call my parents, they'll confirm who I am." There is no clear view of any gun in his hand in that grainy, distant video.

    Mind you, if there is proof that he did point a gun at the officer and it is not a cover-up/planted gun/suppression of more clear and closer video evidence, then I'm all for "case closed, the officer was entirely justified, good riddance that the thug got killed." It's just that I haven't seen clear evidence yet. Maybe I'm not up to date since I just logged in again after Christmas celebrations at home, but as of my posting of yesterday, I thought the only video was that one that has circulated everywhere, and sorry, that video doesn't prove a thing. It's not like planted "evidence" by police has never happened in this country.

    I do hope there is proof that the police version is accurate as it would hopefully calm down things a little (except that radical elements won't be appeased by even the clearest proof, similarly to what happens with conspiracy nuts). I am a law-abiding citizen who respects the police and appreciates the work they do. I believe the vast majority of cops are well-meaning, decent, and heroic folks. I do believe that rarely, police misbehavior does happen, and when it does I'd like the bad apples to be accountable, like in any other profession/field. Just as much, I'd like the many bad apples that have engaged in violent protests and looting and inciting of violence be held accountable as well.

    This said, I wouldn't take for granted that the police version is accurate just because that's what they said, and just because I see in a grainy image from a long distance someone raising his arm (which could be due to any number of things), or just because there was a gun in the scene, which might very well have been planted. Now, let me repeat again, for clarity: if the gun was the dead teen's and he did point it at the officer, good riddance, and congratulations to the officer! Until this is proven, though, I'll reserve my judgment.

    If you have more updated, clearer evidence that the police version is the true version, please post it and I'm more than ready to accept it.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    *sigh*

    There just can't be one single issue, anywhere in the US, that has any sane mainstream position on any side of it, can there.

    As usual, we have two sets of people who are wrong. In this case, I'm fairly comfortable, for now, working on the assumption the guy really pulled a gun, making this fairly open-and-shut.

    But it wouldn't matter if it were the other way around, and he just shot some black guy who said something snarky to him. We'd have the same teams touting the same absolutist nonsense.

    Law inforcement is an intententfully evil eugenics society, or cops are angels just doing what needs to be done against a "feral" population.

    There's just no nuance here. There never is. I'm sick of it. When are the sane people going to come out of the woodwork?

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    . When are the sane people going to come out of the woodwork?
    Well, I think I'm sane, and my posts have been balanced, including, offering three different scenarios, one with the cop entirely justified, one with gray tones with both parties over-reacting and escalating, and one with the cop entirely unjustified. I did not support or endorse any of the scenarios, and merely said that anything is possible and until (hopefully) irrefutable evidence/proof surfaces, I'll reserve judgment. The only point I'm making is that the existing video doesn't look like irrefutable evidence to me since we can barely see anything, and a gun in the scene until further examination is not irrefutable proof either since a gun can be planted and there is at least one version out there that a picture taken by a witness show the same scene without the gun, and another one taken *two hours later* with the same angle and the same visual field shows the gun. I also said that it is perfectly possible that the first picture is a fake or photoshopped and that the second one is explained by the need to submit the gun to expert examination. Just, I haven't seen conclusive evidence either way, yet.

  9. #349
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Well, I think I'm sane, and my posts have been balanced, including, offering three different scenarios, one with the cop entirely justified, one with gray tones with both parties over-reacting and escalating, and one with the cop entirely unjustified. I did not support or endorse any of the scenarios, and merely said that anything is possible and until (hopefully) irrefutable evidence/proof surfaces, I'll reserve judgment. The only point I'm making is that the existing video doesn't look like irrefutable evidence to me since we can barely see anything, and a gun in the scene until further examination is not irrefutable proof either since a gun can be planted and there is at least one version out there that a picture taken by a witness show the same scene without the gun, and another one taken *two hours later* with the same angle and the same visual field shows the gun. I also said that it is perfectly possible that the first picture is a fake or photoshopped and that the second one is explained by the need to submit the gun to expert examination. Just, I haven't seen conclusive evidence either way, yet.
    Well, yeah, but is there any significant reason to treat the possibility that the cop basically made everything up as an equal possibility compared to his story being more or less correct? At this point, no, not really.

    I'm not ready to make a firm judgment either, but there is no reason to treat those two possibilities as somehow equal. They aren't. You have to do a lot of hypothesizing to arrive at the conclusion that they are. You have to dismiss a lot of decent evidence out of hand to arrive at the conclusion that they are. You have to slather everything in a lot of completely baseless "what if's" and inventing all kinds of stories from thin air to arrive at the conclusion that they are.

    That's not balanced. That's pro-protester bias -- just not quite as extreme as maybe some other people.

    I could certainly be convinced the story as given is not true. I am not at a final, firm conclusion. Overall, I think police militarization is a major problem in the US. I don't especially trust the cops there myself.

    But there is a lot of decent evidence that the cop's story is more or less true right now. I have no reason to be treating these possibilities as equal. They aren't. I am not going to indulge a bunch of "what if" stories based on absolutely nothing as equally valid compared to decent evidence of the contrary.

    And it frankly doesn't matter. We'd be seeing the same nonsense whether this was a textbook protocol shoot, a bigotry-fueled hate-crime-by-cop, or totally ambigious. It would make no difference to how most people are arguing.

    That's what's really goddamn absurd. The whole thing is so unbalanced that we can't even tell what balanced is anymore.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 12-25-14 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #350
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, yeah, but is there any significant reason to treat the possibility that the cop basically made everything up as an equal possibility compared to his story being more or less correct? At this point, no, not really.

    I'm not ready to make a firm judgment either, but there is no reason to treat those two possibilities as somehow equal. They aren't. You have to do a lot of hypothesizing to arrive at the conclusion that they are. You have to dismiss a lot of decent evidence out of hand to arrive at the conclusion that they are. You have to slather everything in a lot of completely baseless "what if's" and inventing all kinds of stories from thin air to arrive at the conclusion that they are.

    That's not balanced. That's pro-poster bias -- just not quite as extreme as maybe some other people.

    I could certainly be convinced the story as given is not true. I am not at a final, firm conclusion. Overall, I think police militarization is a major problem in the US. I don't especially trust the cops there myself.

    But there is a lot of decent evidence that the cop's story is more or less true right now. I have no reason to be treating these possibilities as equal. They aren't. I am not going to indulge a bunch of "what if" stories based on absolutely nothing as equally valid compared to decent evidence of the contrary.

    And it frankly doesn't matter. We'd be seeing the same nonsense whether this was a textbook protocol shoot, a bigotry-fueled hate-crime-by-cop, or totally ambigious. It would make no difference to how most people are arguing.

    That's what's really goddamn absurd. The whole thing is so unbalanced that we can't even tell what balanced is anymore.

    Bingo.

    Until there's some reason to question the police statement that the guy pulled a gun on the cop, there's no reason to assume otherwise.


    White people do this "unnecessary shooting" narrative thing too, when their interests are engaged. Case in point...

    I married into a family of criminals. Well, my wife's immediate family were straight, but almost all of her uncles, cousins and etc were career criminals, some of them very serious felons with ties to what passes for organized crime locally. You can imagine how awkward family get-togethers were.

    One of her uncles had been killed by the police a decade before, and they still carried the torch of him being a martyr who was needlessly murdered. As the story goes, he was drunk and disorderly and pulled a knife on the cops, who shot him from twenty feet away when he "charged". The family says he would never have actually stabbed anyone, why did they have to shoot him six times it was just a small pocket knife, he was drunk and they should have taken that into account, etc etc.... then they tried to bring ME into it and ask ME if I would have shot him!

    I said "Whoa, hey.... I wasn't there, I don't know what happened exactly, so I can't really say what should or should not have happened." That answer didn't satisfy them much, but it was a much better answer than the raw truth... which would have been "if he'd charged me with a knife as the cops said he did, I'd have lit him up too."

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