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Thread: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

  1. #141
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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Apparently not. What I've been seeing in other boards is this:

    1. There is footage of the incident with the security camera being far away. In the upper left side of the image we see the incident going on and the teen clearly raises his arm and points it forward - some people say a gun is visible; others don't see anything other than the raised arm. Personally I think the image is too far away to see clearly whether or not he has a gun in his hand.

    2. Police report is that a gun was found in the scene, with the serial number scratched out.

    3. Some people say that someone took a picture of the scene and in this picture there is no gun. Then an official picture *taken two hours later* at the same angle and covering the same spot shows a gun.

    4. Some people say that there is another security camera much closer to the incident (and apparently there are pictures taken of that camera to show its proximity to the scene) but its footage has not been released.

    5. The police has stated that the cop had a body camera but it was not on, and that his patrol car had a dashboard camera but "it is thought that it wasn't on either."

    6. It seems like the teen had had previous incidents of armed offenses in his background.

    7. Apparently the only gun that fired shots was the officer's.

    --------

    These are the statements and/or facts I believe are out there right now - I don't endorse any of them, I don't know if they are true or not, and I don't know if there are other statements, facts, pictures, or footage that contradict or confirm the above.

    --------

    Now, let's think about these items.

    Obviously we have two possibilites.

    A. Footage in item 1 is the closest one available; police is not trying to prevent the public from seeing better footage. The teen did indeed point a gun at the police officer. The gun found in the scene is indeed the teen's gun. Maybe it was temporarily removed for expert examination and investigation then put back which would explain its absence in a picture taken two hours earlier and its presence in the later picture (I don't know if this is done - I mean, taking evidence for examination and putting it back for pictures), or else the first alleged picture taken by a citizen is a fake or photoshopped to erase the gun from it. The body camera and the dashboard camera were indeed turned off just by accident, like police statement said, because officers are still not used to this technology and make these mistakes. The teen having used guns illegally before, would lend credence to the idea that he indeed had a gun and the gun found in the scene was his, and he pointed it at the officer.

    IF HYPOTHESIS A IS FACTUAL, *OF COURSE* THE OFFICER WAS RIGHT IN DEFENDING HIS OWN LIFE AND TAKING DOWN THE TEEN.

    B. The teen was pointing his arm forward for some reason and had no gun (this could be as simple as the officer asking "where are you going" and the teen pointing to some street and saying "I was planning to go there" or any other thousand possibilities. There is better footage from a closer camera and it shows no gun in the teen's hand and this is why it's not being shown. There is footage from the officer's body cam and/or dashboard cam and it shows no gun and it's been erased and a false statement was made that the cameras were not on during the incident. The citizen's picture is accurate and there was no gun by the body. The police then later planted a gun there. The idea that a gun is in the scene, is taken out for expert examination then put back for pictures is not standard procedure as more likely the picture would be taken first, then the gun would be removed. It might be hard to believe that the teen had his arm fully extended and pointing a gun at the officer, and the officer then had time to draw his own gun and fire several shots while the teen didn't fire a single shot.

    IF HYPOTHESIS B IS FACTUAL, THEN WE ARE FACING AN EPISODE OF UNJUSTIFIED USE OF LETHAL FORCE BY POLICE.


    Either way, it is too early to rush to judgment. Does anybody have information, pictures, or footage that might endorse or support hypothesis A or hypothesis B?

    Thanks. I hadn't read a summary like this anywhere. Still many open questions.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    What stupid video? All of them? You gave a blanket statement about how to interact with police, and you gave a markedly wrong statement. Telling people to "just answer the police's questions" is one of the worst bits of advice I've ever heard. Shut up, cooperate, and get a lawyer. That's the right advice. If you follow that advice you:

    1) Should not be hurt
    2) Should get the best possible defense against whatever charge may be levied

    Do you really have an issue with that?
    You seem to be freaking out over it, I have no issue with it at all. Cooperate to me is "just answering his questions". If your a paranoid nut case that thinks cops are trying to find a reason to arrest you then yes just shut up and lawyer up. Just remember that to do that means you will probably be taken in until they can figure out why you need a lawyer.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is if a moderator feels you are derailing the thread, and making it about gun control rather than the incident itself...But, take it from me, you really don't want to discuss this sort of thing in the thread..



    That is totally made up...Please provide proof that this was the case.



    So you think he wasn't on patrol? Was he out stalking black men to kill?



    The reason to initiate an encounter with the two could be a number of things...Could be that they were loitering, and he was going to tell them to move along...But, at the point the man pulled a gun on the cop that was over.


    You can't have a pleasant conversation with someone who just pointed a gun at you.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Is it less sane than firing smoke grenades into a crowd of protestors because it surely calms them down?
    The protestors shouldn't be their.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    1. The police said he pulled a gun. If they police are telling the truth, then it was permissible to shoot him. I'm not inclined to just accept what the police say just because they said it.
    This is what CNN is currently reporting:

    But Berkeley's mayor, who is black, said Wednesday that this shooting cannot be compared to officer-involved deaths in nearby Ferguson and on Staten Island, New York -- incidents that spurred widespread protests after grand juries decided not to charge the officers.

    "(It) does not appear .... that the police officer initiated" Tuesday's shooting, Mayor Theodore Hoskins told reporters Wednesday, citing, in part, the surveillance video that he says appears to show the teen aiming a gun at the officer.


    Officer fatally shoots armed teen in town near Ferguson - CNN.com

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes we do, we even have video.
    And the anti-police yahoos are still going to claim the cops did something wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Why are you making this about race?

    So if a police officer approaches anyone its harassment?
    Did that cop ever approach white men in the parking lot of that establishment while on routine patrol?

    if so, it's not about race.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    True, and true. The main issue in this case, though, is whether or not the teen pointed a gun at the cop. I don't think this point has been clearly established yet, given some strange circumstances I detailed earlier. If the the teen did point a gun at the officer, case closed. If he didn't, then all hell breaks loose, as we'd be facing a major cover-up happening in the middle of an already explosive situation.

    One thing that would help, I think, is that police leaders re-train officers to have body cameras and dashboard cameras on at all times, and that this footage be immediately and transparently available in any doubtful case. Trust and accountability must be restored from all sides, otherwise we are all as a society headed into a lot of trouble (which has started already, like the crazy guy who shot and killed two officers in New York City).

    Me, while I wouldn't endorse for a second any case of unjustified police brutality, I'd also want my home and family and city to be protected by police.

    The police serve society in a very essential job (and a difficult, honorable, and dangerous and even heroic one); on the other hand, we do need our police officers to be highly trained, responsible (as in, using the right level of force required by the circumstances), and accountable if they stray (with non-malicious human error being taken into account as attenuating circumstance, but malicious and deliberate misuse of force or cover-ups being severely punished). We need our citizens to be equally law-abiding, respectful of officers when the police are doing their job appropriately, and accountable for things like violent protests and looting. We need our criminals to be caught, prosecuted, and killed when justified (as in self-defense when they are trying to kill an officer). In summary, we need a state of law where all parties behave within it.
    Unfortunately as a society we seem to be currently far from the ideal I've just stated.


    I'm going to disagree and say that compared to a lot of other countries on this planet the USA has a lot of excellent cops who do a tough job well.

    No human being is perfect and some people make mistakes.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This is what CNN is currently reporting:

    But Berkeley's mayor, who is black, said Wednesday that this shooting cannot be compared to officer-involved deaths in nearby Ferguson and on Staten Island, New York -- incidents that spurred widespread protests after grand juries decided not to charge the officers.

    "(It) does not appear .... that the police officer initiated" Tuesday's shooting, Mayor Theodore Hoskins told reporters Wednesday, citing, in part, the surveillance video that he says appears to show the teen aiming a gun at the officer.


    Officer fatally shoots armed teen in town near Ferguson - CNN.com
    Thanks for the info. And, again, the if the police's side of the story turns out to be true and the video shows what they say it shows, then shooting the guy was permissible. I'll continue to take it with a grain of salt for now.

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    Re: Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun.....

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That's horrible advice. Depending on what the officer is trying to talk to you about, I would greatly advise against that.

    Instead, ask if you are being arrested or if you should get a lawyer.
    At which point he can place you under arrest and hold you for 24 hours.

    Is your next piece of advice to resist arrest?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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