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Thread: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If they want to vote to join NATO, they can do that, but it is not fine. It is even worse if NATO accepts.
    They can vote, as far as I am concerned, to join nato until they are blue/red in the face. But as for Nato accepting? No, please no. Or better yet, hell no, they do not deserve in Nato at this moment in time.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    They can vote, as far as I am concerned, to join nato until they are blue/red in the face. But as for Nato accepting? No, please no. Or better yet, hell no, they do not deserve in Nato at this moment in time.
    Let's suppose that they deserved to be in NATO, you think it would be fine for NATO to accept Ukraine? Would it be fine for NATO to station troops in Ukraine? Would it be fine for NATO to place nuclear missiles, aimed at Russia, in Ukraine?

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It will be interesting to see the effect this will have on the situation in eastern Ukraine. I suspect the Russians will become more aggressive there as a result. Of course it will mean Russians will play very hard ball with respect to energy supplies and Ukrainian exports to Russia. Here we go. Will Victoria Nuland go down in history as having instigated the events that led to a nuclear conflict between the US and Russia?

    Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO
    I wonder if the annexation of Crimea had anything to do with Ukraine's move to join Nato.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What Ukraine needs is leadership that understands the world and can put things in proper perspective.
    Translation: Ukraine must obey Russia

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Diplomacy is the art of compromise. Compromise means that the parties involved give up some of what they approve of so that others will do some things that they do not approve of that you want them to do. That is the way mature adults behave because it is obvious that no one can have everything they want all of the time. Sometimes they have to do things that they don't want to do. In international relations, Russia cannot have all of what it wants, neither can the United States.
    No one claimed that. However that doesn't give Russia the right to invade another country.

    To think that if a party cannot get what it wants in international relations that it is necessarily weak is childish. To put forward the notion that we respect the vital concerns of a nuclear armed power, that has the capability to destroy the US as we know it in less than an hour, is not necessarily giving Putin what he wants, it is an acknowledgement of the reality of the world as it is, not as we want it to be in which the US can do whatever it wants whenever it wants without putting itself in a dangerous position. In other words, to answer your question, it is a dangerous path because it has the potential to provoke a nuclear confrontation with Russia.
    No Putin is trying to rebuild the soviet empire and annex lands from neighboring countries. That is Putin wanting everything his way or threatening and actually invading when he doesn't get what he wants.




    I'm sorry, you can't say that only the US has the right to interfere in another country's foreign policy, especially since Ukraine is a vital interest of Russia. Yes Russia has interfered in Ukraine's foreign policy, but so has the US.
    Never said the USA had the right to intervene in another countries foreign policy. So you can drop that failed strawman. If Ukraine wants to Join NATO, it is their NATO's decision. NOT the USA's decision nor does it mean the USA is interfering with their foreign policy. Now if the USA said join NATO or we will invade (you know, the diplomatic tactics Putin is using) That would be interfering.
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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If they want to vote to join NATO, they can do that, but it is not fine. It is even worse if NATO accepts.
    Why is it not fine? It is their decision not Putin's.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What Ukraine needs is leadership that understands the world and can put things in proper perspective.
    That is what Russia needs
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I wonder if the annexation of Crimea had anything to do with Ukraine's move to join Nato.
    Nah that was all about Putting just rearranging the map to make things better for the Ukrainians. After all he is only thinking of their well being.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What Ukraine needs is leadership that understands the world and can put things in proper perspective.
    You mean that Russia is a big threat to it? I think they might have properly grasped that perspective.

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    Re: Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Let's suppose that they deserved to be in NATO, you think it would be fine for NATO to accept Ukraine? Would it be fine for NATO to station troops in Ukraine? Would it be fine for NATO to place nuclear missiles, aimed at Russia, in Ukraine?
    I think, as long as the relationship with Russia is so unstable, it might be smarter to have a friendship agreement with Ukraine instead. In this friendship agreement we can guarantee several things like protection during an invasion, military aid and the right of Ukrainian soldiers to train with Nato forces etc. etc. without them being actual members of Nato.

    And there can not be nuclear missiles in Ukraine, a country with such a level of instability is not a country that should be given nuclear weapons IMHO. Nuclear proliferation should be avoided IMHO.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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